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Old 07-15-2008, 06:18 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
Reputation: 1094

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
1. I suggest that we scratch the plan for the fence and build a 20 foot wall around the entire perimeter of our southern border.

Agree

2. Until the wall is complete, I suggest that we post armed guards at the current border and post signs advising the invaders of shoot to kill orders of anyone who becomes resistant upon being turned back.

Agree-----Spain and even Mexico have strict anti illegal immigration controls along their borders.

3. Seal up all the drug tunnels.

Agree

4. ABOLISH the 14th Amendment; no more anchor babies. Only children born in the US to illegal alien parents prior to 1998 will be grandfathered in.

Disagree------but, set an arbitrary date for future US born Anchor Babies assuming that both parents are indeed here illegally------grandfather in the existing ones in all fairness but the parents would still need to leave.

5. Cut off ALL social services and free education to non citizens. Only emergency health care will be given and the bill should be sent to the government of the illegal aliens country of origin;

Add in green card holders/legal immigrants------otherwise I agree

6. Raid all businesses suspected of hiring/harboring illegal aliens. Crack down on ALL employers caught hiring illegal aliens with stiff fines and hefty jail sentences. Women with children should be forced to take their children with them UNLESS they fall under the grandfather clause. If they have an American citizen/legal resident relative or friend they should be allowed to make arrangements (from their jail cell) with regard to the care of the anchor baby.

Agreed

7. Rid the jails of all IA's and make their respective government responsible for receiving them. If they refuse, cut off ALL aid until they take responsibility for their nationals.

Agreed

8. Make America's official language ENGLISH.

Sad to say; it has become necessary IMHO

9. Abolish the printing of all taxpayer funded government forms in any foreign language.

Agree except for materials pertaining to public health/safety

10. Temporary moratorium on ALL immigration until the majority of the IA's either self deport or are legally deported.

This one I will have to disagree with

11. Close all the loop holes in our current immigration policy; ensure that the laws therein are clearly stated.

Agreed

12. Arrest anyone harboring illegal aliens for any reason (i.e. family members, etc.)

Agreed

13. Any church caught assisting, harboring, aiding or abetting an IA should have their tax exempt status rescinded. The enabler should be jailed for treason.

Maybe not treason but definitely some charges should apply

14. Any government official aiding, abetting or harboring illegal aliens should be fined and promptly jailed, inclusive of those declaring their city/state as an illegal alien sanctuary.

Agreed

15. Only when things settle down, and we have revised our policies to reflect the original reasons/rules for legal immigration. Allow LEGAL immigration in limited quotas to suit the needs of AMERICA, not because somebody is looking for the "American Dream" or think they are entitled to their nonexistent "piece of the pie".

Refer to your post #10 and my reply


How's this for starters? If I think of anything else, I'll add it.

Works for me
Great revisions, I know you and I disagree with the temporary moratorium on legal immigration. At the end of the day, I think Americans who truly love this country want our laws enforced, loopholes removed, sovereignty back and illegal aliens to go home.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
1. I suggest that we scratch the plan for the fence and build a 20 foot wall around the entire perimeter of our southern border.

Though I don't support it, I don't really care enough about the "wall" issue to get riled up over it. It's a distraction to the real issue and I don't like to get caught up in the symbolism.

Symbolism or not, anything that would stem the tide is an improvement over what is currently there.


2. Until the wall is complete, I suggest that we post armed guards at the current border and post signs advising the invaders of shoot to kill orders of anyone who becomes resistant upon being turned back.

This is a bit much, don't you think?

Has anything else made ANY impression on the millions per year that illegally violate our national sovereignty?


3. Seal up all the drug tunnels.

Fine with me.

And me.

4. ABOLISH the 14th Amendment; no more anchor babies. Only children born in the US to illegal alien parents prior to 1998 will be grandfathered in.

So we are going to marginalize the children of illegal aliens who, at no fault of their own, were born into a land that refuses to recognize their birthright to citizenship? I am very against this notion.

Two illegals can't make a citizen. Almost EVERY country on the planet limits 'birthright citizenship' to ONLY those children with at least ONE PARENT being a citizen of said country.

5. Cut off ALL social services and free education to non citizens. Only emergency health care will be given and the bill should be sent to the government of the illegal aliens country of origin;

See above response. It is unimaginable to turn away the children of illegal aliens from our schools because it would create more social problems (and cost more money) than the money that would be saved from refusing to educate them. The Supreme Court has said that access to free public education is a pseudo-fundamental right. I support the continuation of education and social services to illegal aliens because without providing these services, it is quite possible that the aggregate amount of damage done to American society due to rampant unemployment, homelessness, sickness, and increased crime would far surpass the amount of money saved by not spending money on education, healthcare, and the like.

Turning them away from schools (an expense that runs to the 100's of BILLIONS nationally) would not only save that money, but make it MUCH easier to locate and identify their illegal alien parents. This in turn would make their DEPORTATION easier, as well.

6. Raid all businesses suspected of hiring/harboring illegal aliens. Crack down on ALL employers caught hiring illegal aliens with stiff fines and hefty jail sentences. Women with children should be forced to take their children with them UNLESS they fall under the grandfather clause. If they have an American citizen/legal resident relative or friend they should be allowed to make arrangements (from their jail cell) with regard to the care of the anchor baby.

The raids are a bit much for me. However, I wouldn't be opposed to fining employers of illegal aliens.

Workplace enforcement is the EXISTING law of the land, as is possible JAIL TIME for employers. Make that jail time MANDATORY, along with 6 figure fines, and the employment of illegal aliens would become a NON-issue.

7. Rid the jails of all IA's and make their respective government responsible for receiving them. If they refuse, cut off ALL aid until they take responsibility for their nationals.

The one instance in which I would possibly support deportation is in the instance of an illegal alien committing a grave crime like murder, rape, armed robbery, etc. Send the true, dangerous criminals back to their countries and let their governments deal with them.

So all the other crimes like identity theft, false impersonation, etc. you would give them a WALK on? THAT'S telling.
..

8. Make America's official language ENGLISH.

For me this is a non-issue. It's symbolic and I don't like to get caught up in it. English is in no way threatened, so making it the national language isn't necessary; however, I would not be opposed to a measure that simply declared it our "national language."

I'm all for a 'sink or swim' policy when it comes to the printing of government forms. If you can't read or speak English, CRACK A BOOK!


9. Abolish the printing of all taxpayer funded government forms in any foreign language.

This is not practical. Newly arrived immigrants need this service and just because the Italians had a hard time with it in the 1920's doesn't mean that we should stubbornly and haphazardly refuse to provide government literature regarding transportation, education, and healthcare in languages other than English.

See my last response.

10. Temporary moratorium on ALL immigration until the majority of the IA's either self deport or are legally deported.

I just don't find this necessary, and therefore I would not support this.

I think it's BEYOND necessary, and I would hope it takes no longer than say, 5 YEARS.

11. Close all the loop holes in our current immigration policy; ensure that the laws therein are clearly stated.

Fair enough. Fix the problems and make the laws more workable.

The laws are plenty workable, they just need to be FOLLOWED.

12. Arrest anyone harboring illegal aliens for any reason (i.e. family members, etc.)

Not practical. I would not support the arrest of a young woman who "harbors" her illegal alien mother in her home. How the hell would we even go about enforcing such a thing?

Harboring illegal aliens is ALREADY against the law. We simply need to ENFORCE it.

13. Any church caught assisting, harboring, aiding or abetting an IA should have their tax exempt status rescinded. The enabler should be jailed for treason.

Too dramatic and unnecessary.

I'd bet that all the Catholic Church's PANDERING would stop in a HEARTBEAT!


14. Any government official aiding, abetting or harboring illegal aliens should be fined and promptly jailed, inclusive of those declaring their city/state as an illegal alien sanctuary.

Too dramatic, unnecessary, and totally unworkable. How do you define "sanctuary city" anyways? Is Atlanta one? How about Wichita? New York?

New York is one. San Francisco another. Los Angeles, too. We should cut off ALL Federal funds to these cities that have taken it upon themselves to declare their status as 'sanctuaries'.

15. Only when things settle down, and we have revised our policies to reflect the original reasons/rules for legal immigration. Allow LEGAL immigration in limited quotas to suit the needs of AMERICA, not because somebody is looking for the "American Dream" or think they are entitled to their nonexistent "piece of the pie".

Fair enough.. however, I believe that the United States economy is absorbing the current flow of immigrant (including the illegal immigrants) - it is my opinion that the "needs of America" are bring met pretty well. If you doubled the amount of immigrants, my opinion might very well change.

What 'you believe' has resulted in the loss of jobs for American workers and the lowering of their wages to the tune of $200 BILLION a year. Your 'opinion' is as flawed as the logic that created it
.
Excellent! I agree 100%.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:27 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
1. I suggest that we scratch the plan for the fence and build a 20 foot wall around the entire perimeter of our southern border.

Though I don't support it, I don't really care enough about the "wall" issue to get riled up over it. It's a distraction to the real issue and I don't like to get caught up in the symbolism.

Symbolism or not, anything that would stem the tide is an improvement over what is currently there.

2. Until the wall is complete, I suggest that we post armed guards at the current border and post signs advising the invaders of shoot to kill orders of anyone who becomes resistant upon being turned back.

This is a bit much, don't you think?

Has anything else made ANY impression on the millions per year that illegally violate our national sovereignty?

3. Seal up all the drug tunnels.

Fine with me.

And me.

4. ABOLISH the 14th Amendment; no more anchor babies. Only children born in the US to illegal alien parents prior to 1998 will be grandfathered in.

So we are going to marginalize the children of illegal aliens who, at no fault of their own, were born into a land that refuses to recognize their birthright to citizenship? I am very against this notion.

Two illegals can't make a citizen. Almost EVERY country on the planet limits 'birthright citizenship' to ONLY those children with at least ONE PARENT being a citizen of said country.

5. Cut off ALL social services and free education to non citizens. Only emergency health care will be given and the bill should be sent to the government of the illegal aliens country of origin;

See above response. It is unimaginable to turn away the children of illegal aliens from our schools because it would create more social problems (and cost more money) than the money that would be saved from refusing to educate them. The Supreme Court has said that access to free public education is a pseudo-fundamental right. I support the continuation of education and social services to illegal aliens because without providing these services, it is quite possible that the aggregate amount of damage done to American society due to rampant unemployment, homelessness, sickness, and increased crime would far surpass the amount of money saved by not spending money on education, healthcare, and the like.

Turning them away from schools (an expense that runs to the 100's of BILLIONS nationally) would not only save that money, but make it MUCH easier to locate and identify their illegal alien parents. This in turn would make their DEPORTATION easier, as well.

6. Raid all businesses suspected of hiring/harboring illegal aliens. Crack down on ALL employers caught hiring illegal aliens with stiff fines and hefty jail sentences. Women with children should be forced to take their children with them UNLESS they fall under the grandfather clause. If they have an American citizen/legal resident relative or friend they should be allowed to make arrangements (from their jail cell) with regard to the care of the anchor baby.

The raids are a bit much for me. However, I wouldn't be opposed to fining employers of illegal aliens.

Workplace enforcement is the EXISTING law of the land, as is possible JAIL TIME for employers. Make that jail time MANDATORY, along with 6 figure fines, and the employment of illegal aliens would become a NON-issue.

7. Rid the jails of all IA's and make their respective government responsible for receiving them. If they refuse, cut off ALL aid until they take responsibility for their nationals.

The one instance in which I would possibly support deportation is in the instance of an illegal alien committing a grave crime like murder, rape, armed robbery, etc. Send the true, dangerous criminals back to their countries and let their governments deal with them.

So all the other crimes like identity theft, false impersonation, etc. you would give them a WALK on? THAT'S telling...

8. Make America's official language ENGLISH.

For me this is a non-issue. It's symbolic and I don't like to get caught up in it. English is in no way threatened, so making it the national language isn't necessary; however, I would not be opposed to a measure that simply declared it our "national language."

I'm all for a 'sink or swim' policy when it comes to the printing of government forms. If you can't read or speak English, CRACK A BOOK!

9. Abolish the printing of all taxpayer funded government forms in any foreign language.

This is not practical. Newly arrived immigrants need this service and just because the Italians had a hard time with it in the 1920's doesn't mean that we should stubbornly and haphazardly refuse to provide government literature regarding transportation, education, and healthcare in languages other than English.

See my last response.

10. Temporary moratorium on ALL immigration until the majority of the IA's either self deport or are legally deported.

I just don't find this necessary, and therefore I would not support this.

I think it's BEYOND necessary, and I would hope it takes no longer than say, 5 YEARS.

11. Close all the loop holes in our current immigration policy; ensure that the laws therein are clearly stated.

Fair enough. Fix the problems and make the laws more workable.

The laws are plenty workable, they just need to be FOLLOWED.

12. Arrest anyone harboring illegal aliens for any reason (i.e. family members, etc.)

Not practical. I would not support the arrest of a young woman who "harbors" her illegal alien mother in her home. How the hell would we even go about enforcing such a thing?

Harboring illegal aliens is ALREADY against the law. We simply need to ENFORCE it.

13. Any church caught assisting, harboring, aiding or abetting an IA should have their tax exempt status rescinded. The enabler should be jailed for treason.

Too dramatic and unnecessary.

I'd bet that all the Catholic Church's PANDERING would stop in a HEARTBEAT!

14. Any government official aiding, abetting or harboring illegal aliens should be fined and promptly jailed, inclusive of those declaring their city/state as an illegal alien sanctuary.

Too dramatic, unnecessary, and totally unworkable. How do you define "sanctuary city" anyways? Is Atlanta one? How about Wichita? New York?

New York is one. San Francisco another. Los Angeles, too. We should cut off ALL Federal funds to these cities that have taken it upon themselves to declare their status as 'sanctuaries'.

15. Only when things settle down, and we have revised our policies to reflect the original reasons/rules for legal immigration. Allow LEGAL immigration in limited quotas to suit the needs of AMERICA, not because somebody is looking for the "American Dream" or think they are entitled to their nonexistent "piece of the pie".

Fair enough.. however, I believe that the United States economy is absorbing the current flow of immigrant (including the illegal immigrants) - it is my opinion that the "needs of America" are bring met pretty well. If you doubled the amount of immigrants, my opinion might very well change.

What 'you believe' has resulted in the loss of jobs for American workers and the lowering of their wages to the tune of $200 BILLION a year. Your 'opinion' is as flawed as the logic that created it.
Word to all that you have stated. They would all stop pandering and pocketing their ill gotten gains because they would finally be held accountable and suffer the consequences for the destruction of this country and the lives of it's citizens.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:45 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,273,527 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Wow . . .are you a citizen of this country?
I am a proud citizen of this country, yes.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:49 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I am a proud citizen of this country, yes.
Are you the product of an illegal alien mother that crossed the border? Don't get offended, I'm just asking.
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Old 07-15-2008, 07:24 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,273,527 times
Reputation: 1675
Nope. My parents are Americans too.

PS - just for the record, I am 0% Mexican and have no connection to that country.
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,397,570 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
1. I suggest that we scratch the plan for the fence and build a 20 foot wall around the entire perimeter of our southern border.
I still prefer the original plan of a double layered tight mesh fence with a 2 lane road between the layers for the BP to use. Plus cameras and sensors.

Quote:
2. Until the wall is complete, I suggest that we post armed guards at the current border and post signs advising the invaders of shoot to kill orders of anyone who becomes resistant upon being turned back.
The border violence with the drug cartels is out of control. We do need armed guards along the border because of the violence.

Quote:
3. Seal up all the drug tunnels.
Of course.

Quote:
4. ABOLISH the 14th Amendment; no more anchor babies. Only children born in the US to illegal alien parents prior to 1998 will be grandfathered in.
Agreed. Children must be born to parents who are both legal to get automatic birthright citizenship. Anchor babies born after this policy goes into effect are out of luck.

Quote:
5. Cut off ALL social services and free education to non citizens. Only emergency health care will be given and the bill should be sent to the government of the illegal aliens country of origin;
Agreed. Great idea sending the medical bill back to the illegal's country of origin.

Quote:
6. Raid all businesses suspected of hiring/harboring illegal aliens. Crack down on ALL employers caught hiring illegal aliens with stiff fines and hefty jail sentences. Women with children should be forced to take their children with them UNLESS they fall under the grandfather clause. If they have an American citizen/legal resident relative or friend they should be allowed to make arrangements (from their jail cell) with regard to the care of the anchor baby.
Universal mandatory e-verification of the legal status of employees to remove the jobs magnet provided by the scumbag employers of illegals. Without jobs no new illegals would break in and those illegals already here would mostly self deport back to where they came from. This will stop the illegal Mexican invasion. That's what we want after all. Start deporting all of the criminal illegals immediately, specifically the gang bangers.

Quote:
7. Rid the jails of all IA's and make their respective government responsible for receiving them. If they refuse, cut off ALL aid until they take responsibility for their nationals.
Great idea.

Quote:
8. Make America's official language ENGLISH.
No brainer.

Quote:
9. Abolish the printing of all taxpayer funded government forms in any foreign language.
Yep.

Quote:
10. Temporary moratorium on ALL immigration until the majority of the IA's either self deport or are legally deported.
I agree. Great thinking. Stopping ALL immigration until the VAST majority of illegals are gone would provide a big incentive to remove the illegals as quickly as possible. It would be a big incentive to carry out the intent of removing the illegals. It would be a big incentive to keep the removal of illegals from getting stalled by all of the ethnocentric groups.

Quote:
11. Close all the loop holes in our current immigration policy; ensure that the laws therein are clearly stated.
Good idea.

Quote:
12. Arrest anyone harboring illegal aliens for any reason (i.e. family members, etc.)
Agreed.

Quote:
13. Any church caught assisting, harboring, aiding or abetting an IA should have their tax exempt status rescinded. The enabler should be jailed for treason.
Agreed

Quote:
14. Any government official aiding, abetting or harboring illegal aliens should be fined and promptly jailed, inclusive of those declaring their city/state as an illegal alien sanctuary.
Agreed.

Quote:
15. Only when things settle down, and we have revised our policies to reflect the original reasons/rules for legal immigration. Allow LEGAL immigration in limited quotas to suit the needs of AMERICA, not because somebody is looking for the "American Dream" or think they are entitled to their nonexistent "piece of the pie".
Agreed!

I would like to add:

16. Stop the ridiculous chain migration policy and go to the merit system completely. EVERY single new legal immigrant should have to qualify by a merit system formula so that EVERY single new legal immigrant is one that is good for America.
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:49 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguer View Post
I still prefer the original plan of a double layered tight mesh fence with a 2 lane road between the layers for the BP to use. Plus cameras and sensors.



The border violence with the drug cartels is out of control. We do need armed guards along the border because of the violence.



Of course.



Agreed. Children must be born to parents who are both legal to get automatic birthright citizenship. Anchor babies born after this policy goes into effect are out of luck.



Agreed. Great idea sending the medical bill back to the illegal's country of origin.



Universal mandatory e-verification of the legal status of employees to remove the jobs magnet provided by the scumbag employers of illegals. Without jobs no new illegals would break in and those illegals already here would mostly self deport back to where they came from. This will stop the illegal Mexican invasion. That's what we want after all. Start deporting all of the criminal illegals immediately, specifically the gang bangers.



Great idea.



No brainer.



Yep.



I agree. Great thinking. Stopping ALL immigration until the VAST majority of illegals are gone would provide a big incentive to remove the illegals as quickly as possible. It would be a big incentive to carry out the intent of removing the illegals. It would be a big incentive to keep the removal of illegals from getting stalled by all of the ethnocentric groups.



Good idea.



Agreed.



Agreed



Agreed.



Agreed!

I would like to add:

16. Stop the ridiculous chain migration policy and go to the merit system completely. EVERY single new legal immigrant should have to qualify by a merit system formula so that EVERY single new legal immigrant is one that is good for America.

Dont feel like responding to all of these, but to put a stop to ALL immigration? Why?
To do something like that would cause illegal immigration to jump. Theres lots of people trying to reunite with family in the states who want to do it legally, and then to all of sudden tell them no, many are going to come anyway.
And orders to shoot people crossing the border? That's barbaric. People call Mexico hypocritical, and criticize how they treat illegal immigrants, but then you suggest we pick up those tactics?
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,173,806 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Dont feel like responding to all of these, but to put a stop to ALL immigration? Why?
To do something like that would cause illegal immigration to jump. Theres lots of people trying to reunite with family in the states who want to do it legally, and then to all of sudden tell them no, many are going to come anyway.
And orders to shoot people crossing the border? That's barbaric. People call Mexico hypocritical, and criticize how they treat illegal immigrants, but then you suggest we pick up those tactics?
You saw the word temporary there, didn't you amc? Ever heard the term "TIME OUT!!""? This country needs an immigration time out. It's going to take 3-5 years of HEAVY ENFORCEMENT to reverse the illegal flow. During that time our Immigration people should be SOLELY FOCUSED on ENFORCEMENT ONLY!

The folks that are currently in line will just have to wait until we get our collective immigration 'house' in order.

And guess what, amc... We do just that and there won't be anyone shooting at anyone on our southern border...
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:04 PM
 
2,541 posts, read 10,189,375 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
This forum is NOT only about illegal immigration you know.
In your thread you mentioned Illegal immigrants can do good too
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