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Old 07-14-2008, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Most of those people didn't go to school, those who dont learn english. Most of them work jobs where speaking English is not a necessity.
But when the children go to school, and grow up in American culture, they have no choice but to learn English. Its not like they consciously do it..it happens naturally.
Fair enough. You make a valid point.
But I question 1 thing. Here in PA anyway. If an immigrant can't read or write or even speak english why do we allow them an interpreture for the driving test? How can they drive safely if they can't read the traffic signs?
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:23 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Fair enough. You make a valid point.
But I question 1 thing. Here in PA anyway. If an immigrant can't read or write or even speak english why do we allow them an interpreture for the driving test? How can they drive safely if they can't read the traffic signs?
Isn't that why traffic signs are generally universal?
Red means stop? Green means go? yellow means slow down?

Orange cones are an attention grabber to watch out for whats ahead.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Isn't that why traffic signs are generally universal?
Red means stop? Green means go? yellow means slow down?

Orange cones are an attention grabber to watch out for whats ahead.
I speak of the more specialized signs actually. But what bothered me is just to see if it were biased I had my wife who is Thai request she be allowed an interpreter. She was told no. Even though the hispanic guy who went before her was allowed. Double standard to be sure.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:33 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I speak of the more specialized signs actually. But what bothered me is just to see if it were biased I had my wife who is Thai request she be allowed an interpreter. She was told no. Even though the hispanic guy who went before her was allowed. Double standard to be sure.
Maybe it has to do with where you live.
Out here, there are interpreters in Spanish, Korean, Tagalog, Mandarin, Arabic, and a whole bunch of other stuff.
Even out here I don't know how sizeable the Thai community is, although there is a Thai Town.
Maybe they just lacked a Thai interpreter. I really doubt its biased..theres just a really huge community of Spanish speakers compared to other non-English languages.
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Maybe it has to do with where you live.
Out here, there are interpreters in Spanish, Korean, Tagalog, Mandarin, Arabic, and a whole bunch of other stuff.
Even out here I don't know how sizeable the Thai community is, although there is a Thai Town.
Maybe they just lacked a Thai interpreter. I really doubt its biased..theres just a really huge community of Spanish speakers compared to other non-English languages.
If that were the case I would be cool with it. They allowed his friend to interpret.
I still feel that they should be required to both speak and read in english to be allowed to drive.
Example in Thailand the main traffic signs are bi-lingual thai and english. I would not even consider driving there because enough signs are not in english and they have different driving laws. Example they drive on the wrong side of the damn road. LOL
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:51 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
If that were the case I would be cool with it. They allowed his friend to interpret.
I still feel that they should be required to both speak and read in english to be allowed to drive.
Example in Thailand the main traffic signs are bi-lingual thai and english. I would not even consider driving there because enough signs are not in english and they have different driving laws. Example they drive on the wrong side of the damn road. LOL
Yeah, I have a feeling I'd have a hard time driving on the left side as well.

I see your concerns, but I think they make sure the signs are universally understood (red=stop orange=construction) for the people who don't speak English, or just "kant reed gude".

But like you said, in other countries like Thailand or Mexico, things are way different. Traffic laws aren't really enforced. But here in the U.S. we have it very tight(as it should be). If you don't want to run into Johnny Law, youre going to step lightly on the pedal and make that complete stop.

With that said, I'd be less worried about non-English speakers understanding the signs, than the actual driving customs of where they are from. But even then, its nots all that bad.

Ive found my self stuck behind cars with Mexican plates(tourists) driving WELL below the speed limit when I'm running late to work, lol.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:10 AM
 
956 posts, read 2,646,563 times
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How can you assimilate third world minded people into a first world nation?
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:30 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Blooded American View Post
How can you assimilate third world minded people into a first world nation?
Its probably hard to do that.
A person born in the third world might be third world minded, but a person born or raised from a baby in the first world will have a good chance of being first world minded.

In order to survive in this nation, economically, you have to speak English. And being fluently bilingual is even better.

For a child raised in the U.S., they are going to want to socialize with other kids. And most kids speak English, even in schools in heavily Latino neighborhoods(like where I grew up).

They might go home and talk spanish to their parents who only speak spanish, but when they socialize at school or with their friends, most of the time they talk English.
Every generation becomes more English speaking.

Example of how assimilation happens: my grandma never became an English speaker(yet oddly enough she's always reading English newspapers ), my mother is fluently bilingual(English is her main language). She and my father always spoke to me in English. Not intentionally, its just thats the language they were more comfortable with. I never really had to speak Spanish growing up, even living in Mexican neighborhoods. My grandma would talk to me in Spanish, I'd talk back in English. Same thing with all the old people on the block.
"que estas haciendo?"
"chilling, abuelita"

" a donde vas?"
"to school. see you later"

So it went from grandmother speaking Spanish and no English, skip one generation, and then you get me, English being my first language and speaking very very poor Spanish(unfortunately), a real pocho.
I very much doubt my kids(when i have them) will speak any Spanish. My parents wont talk to them in Spanish, and I definitely wont. And my grandmother probably won't be around to take care of them.

My mom only speaks very good Spanish because she was always around the adults working in the fields and stuff sun up to sun down during the season.

My dad, who also grew up with both parents only speaking Spanish, was more of a street kid. Spent less time in the fields with the adults, and more time in the barrio with the kids. And like me, he's an English speaker, with very very bad spanish.
When my dad is hanging with his friends, he likes to say "ese" "vato" and all that kind of stuff, but get his Mexican(national) aunts in front of him, and they won't understand a word of his Spanish.
Like me. I can stumble through a Spanish conversation with a Spanish speker, but a lot of times the people Im talking to will end up with a puzzled look on their face.

My younger sister is even worse. She speaks NO spanish, which is an incredible feat for living in a Mexican family in a Mexican neighborhood.


Assimilation happens. And it doesnt have to be forced.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Illinois
107 posts, read 290,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Blooded American View Post
How can you assimilate third world minded people into a first world nation?

The only real hope is that their kids turn a new page in history. It is possible, the Brits took Native Americans back to England from a very young age and they did as good there as anybody else.... So it is theoretically possible.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,173,806 times
Reputation: 391
The article seems to dispute what you're saying, amc, and the study it was based on was run by 2 folks who are quite obviously pro-immigration (legal or otherwise). It might not be a bad idea if you would actually READ the OP.
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