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Old 07-17-2008, 02:26 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,993,791 times
Reputation: 332

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
No-they are not "immigrants"-they are illegal aliens and lawbreakers. While some people may call them immigrants-they are not. OBL types may call them immigrants to try and give them the respect and validity that should be reserved for legal immigrants only. It is called muddying the waters. You state the only difference is taking the "proper steps" as if that difference is not a big deal. It is a very big deal and exactly the reason illegal aliens should never be called immigrants. Just another play out of the OBL playbook. If I were a legal immigrant, I would be pretty damn po'ed if I were getting lumped in with illegal aliens who broke the rules to get here. I am an American citizen and I think that it is disgusting lumping people who follow the rules-aka legal immigrants with lawbreakers who think they have a "right" to come here any way that they please.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If you feel the only way you can fight illegal immigration is to dehumanize the "enemy" and make them seem more evil than they are, then thats all you.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,173,411 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If you feel the only way you can fight illegal immigration is to dehumanize the "enemy" and make them seem more evil than they are, then thats all you.
Just exactly how is anything she wrote 'dehumanizing'?
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:31 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,993,791 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
Just exactly how is anything she wrote 'dehumanizing'?
Insisting one uses the word "criminal" or "alien" for illegal immigrants is dehumanizing what they see as the "enemy".
Thats why so many people use war analogies for this situation.
Its "them vs us"! They are "invading"! "Reconquista"! "Agenda!" etc etc.

When truth is, the problem of illegal immigration is in the numbers, the problem is with too much illegal immigration. The collective effect of so many being here and coming here.

But individually, not all of them are the villains many people here are trying to portray them as.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:34 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,170,029 times
Reputation: 2728
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If you feel the only way you can fight illegal immigration is to dehumanize the "enemy" and make them seem more evil than they are, then thats all you.
So because I don't want people coming here illegally and breaking the law and because I make a distinction between illegal alien lawbreakers and legal immigrants I am "dehumanizing" them? Gotcha Name calling just another OBL tactic and quite typical. You cannot debate FACTS so pull out that crap. It is a shame that it is always something with you-crying racism or hate--now it is we are dehumanizing those that come here illegally? It is always something instead of debating fact. Instead of facts-name call. That is the real shame.

Since you said I am "dehumanizing them" please point out exactly where in my post I said that.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:35 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,170,029 times
Reputation: 2728
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Insisting one uses the word "criminal" or "alien" for illegal immigrants is dehumanizing what they see as the "enemy".
Thats why so many people use war analogies for this situation.
Its "them vs us"! They are "invading"! "Reconquista"! "Agenda!" etc etc.

When truth is, the problem of illegal immigration is in the numbers, the problem is with too much illegal immigration. The collective effect of so many being here and coming here.

But individually, not all of them are the villains many people here are trying to portray them as.
In addition to real proof that I "dehumanized" them I would also like proof in my post as to where I called them the enemy.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:38 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 35,775,631 times
Reputation: 6264
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin View Post
I made the statement because your claim that he going out getting Swedes or something like that is just stupid. He is targeting Mexicans, pure and simple. He is going to neighborhoods where Latinos and Hispanics predominate and pulling over people as a pretext to hassle them about their immigration status. If a white guy was pulled over, they wouldn't be asked about their green card. But if you have brown skin you get pestered about whether you are here illegally. That is racial profiling, pure and simple. No way around it.
Well if they aren't illegal they don't have anything to worry about, do they?

I don't see 20 million Swedes invading the USA...
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:41 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 35,775,631 times
Reputation: 6264
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Fantastic post except for the last sentence. I agreed with everything you had said until you said the words "racist" and "xenophobic" - in my experience, many people who have no problem with "brown" mestizo/indigenous Mexicans DO have a problem with Irishmen and Eastern Europeans who come illegally to Boston and NYC. I'd bet that there are plenty of people who are fascinated and enraged by the illegal immigrant "problem" in this country who are neither racist nor xenophobic. Sure, racism and xenophobia may be the motivation behind some people's opposition to illegal immigration, but I just don't think it's fair to associate all people who oppose illegal immigration with those insulting words.
I think if you look at the threads here (like the one with the English hairdresser) we have all been pretty consistently against illegal immigration no matter what the color.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:45 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,993,791 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
In addition to real proof that I "dehumanized" them I would also like proof in my post as to where I called them the enemy.
'
I see insisting on more negative terms for illegal immigrants as dehumanizing them.
Immigrant has is too nice of a term for you.
It has to be extremely negative. ALIEN.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:50 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,170,029 times
Reputation: 2728
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
'
I see insisting on more negative terms for illegal immigrants as dehumanizing them.
Immigrant has is too nice of a term for you.
It has to be extremely negative. ALIEN.

So we should call people who ignore laws and rules nice fluffy happy sounding names? That is exactly the OBL playbook. Give them nice sounding names, lump them with LEGAL immigrants who play by the rules.

Alien = Foreigner.

Illegal is just that- illegal



An illegal alien is a foreigner that is here illegally-it is as simple as that. Sorry if the truth is too negative for you.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
So because I don't want people coming here illegally and breaking the law and because I make a distinction between illegal alien lawbreakers and legal immigrants I am "dehumanizing" them? Gotcha Name calling just another OBL tactic and quite typical. You cannot debate FACTS so pull out that crap. It is a shame that it is always something with you-crying racism or hate--now it is we are dehumanizing those that come here illegally? It is always something instead of debating fact. Instead of facts-name call. That is the real shame.

Since you said I am "dehumanizing them" please point out exactly where in my post I said that.
The pro illegal side is becoming more and more strident because their side is losing the battle for public opinion--------big time.

It seems with every piece of legistlation pertaining to cracking down on the illegals and their enablers, the louder their howls.
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