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Old 09-07-2008, 06:44 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,035,044 times
Reputation: 2873

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Quote:
Originally Posted by irisheyesafire View Post
I'm almost speechless - almost. Simply amazing that anyone would tell another1, Gee, you should go on back to Brazil now since they're finally climbing few steps up the ladder, and say a big ole THANK YOU AMERICA (?) ...Golly, and just brush up your portuguese (what the -?)... And anyone NOT lopsided in their thinking can say these things after reading about the serious LACK of even the basest HUMANE treatment toward this man (then a small child!) and his family...???
(And "brush up your portuguese" -?)
Amazing.
...can you say rude?


NO ONE deserves not to be treated HUMANELY, no matter their "citizenship" with WHOMEVER they have or don't have it with.

And unfortunately I find I often totally agree with such statements as the "Land of opportunistS" comment.

And yeah, in case it's wondered, I'm a full-blood U.S. of A. born individual. I simply make the CHOICE to believe we're all people and should show love and assistance to any other in need who is SEEKING TO WORK HARD TO BETTER THEMSELVES, especially in those more need than myself - again, so long as they are making grand efforts of their own, especially. I'm odd, I do think, from the opinion of the general populace in not understanding the HATRED toward others who want to come into this country. I've known people in more than one university I've attended who were involved in very long processes trying to get their citizenship and going through all the right chanels and methods (one stands out in my mind who was from Poland, just for example), and it was a long, grueling, often ridiculous (sorry, but true) process. And, no, I don't get the gripe with illegals or legals working here (and yes there IS hypocricy in that I know a LOT of folks who hate them all, legal or not, but they'll talk out one side of their mouth all day long as though it is the "illegal" they are referring to), when those working here are in the process - yes - of bolstering our economy by contributing in many diverse ways, and paying the cost of living here like we do, including taxes. It is very difficult to believe the angst is anything other than bigotry and prejudice. I will acknowlege that yes, there must be some, some valid concerns (I'm sorry I don't have an example - it wouldn't be welfare when they HAVE to have social security numbers to receive that or any other government aide)... but, I believe those concerns are regarding issues that are hardly doing all of the screwing up of our country. Certainly not anymore than issues screwing up the country by good ole Americans. And definitely, many should realize that there are large corporations hiring the illegals rather than U.S. citizens in efforts to cut their own spending. Take a hard look at those corporations if you want to even think of doing something about that problem. Isn't that akin to Corporate America selling a ton of jobs to overseas countries? So what would you say?- Gosh, if you illegals just would go away, suddenly such corrupt (doesn't that word fit?) corporations would be... uncorrupt?!? C'mon folks.
Hmm, if we are genuinely, truly, just concerned that America may be going to pot, how about we throw out ALL the bad eggs, American or not, to - gosh, where would that be? - and only keep the good ones here, American or not. And, who gets to decide who all that will be and why?
See, where does the buck stop?

Instead of just spouting hatred toward a collective group (which is unfair)of individuals that you do not know, why not be a part of joining forces with good men and women working hard to find real solutions that are good for both us as Americans AND those suffering unduly in another country and seeking a better place for not only themselves, but generations to follow. Do not forget that we in the U.S.A. are made up of people through history from all over the world, multiplicity of countries far and wide, and that in the process of the first "immigrants" coming to this land, they brutalized the native peoples who were here to begin with.

It will never be cliche that only in closely examining history do we have any chance at all of becoming better, and not repeating the same mistakes. There must be better ways. But truly better ways will not be found if we only grumble and do not work to find them.

OK, here it goes........nobody that posts regularily on this forum is unaware of the role businesses play in the illegal immigration drama. We are aware, it is disgusting and we have talked ad naseum about what would be a good solution for it.
We have also gone a step further and plan ways to contact our representatives in government -both local and federal- about illegal immigration and the role they play in it.
And of course making ones way through us immigration paperwork is an expensive and ridiculously convoluted process with many duplicates and many agencies saying x is needed while other agencies say no y is needed instead. (Unlike you, I actually have first hand knowledge of the USBCIS)

I wonder what was taught at the university that you attended that you believe that the us a) owes the world a place, because we were all immigrants at one point and b) we have room, money, jobs and infrastructure for everyone who would like to come. Neither statement is true. You see, the USA -- much like every nation on earth -- has sovereignity. That would mean the us government has the right and the obligation to control immigration by deciding what type of people to let in, making sure those people do not have criminal histories and making sure that we can handle the immigrants that do come. Because money does not grow on trees. Neither does housing, jobs, schools, air quality, land preservation etc......Have you talked to an ecologist lately? Overpopulation is a *****, whether it be from too much reproduction or too much uncontrolled immigration.

So, what I would hope you have learned is that being anti illegal immigration doesn't equate with bigotry, xenophobia, racism, or even unkindness. What it is about is being realistic enough to know that while it would make us feel good to let everyone into the us that would like to, it would us a pollution ridden third world country in short order.
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,041 posts, read 12,813,594 times
Reputation: 2320
Quote:
Originally Posted by another1 View Post
alright i got tired of coming here just to check on how this post is going so im just going to say this, and be done.

first off, illegal immigrants dont "take" anyones job.
if he is working, and you are not, then obviously its because he does a better job or charges less for it. you wouldnt complain if they were legal, and were just working for less or better then you, you would lower ur standard as well. but no, since they are illegal, you just blame it on that so you have an excuse.


and by the looks of it a few people seem to get the idea that i hate america.
that is far from the truth. i love this country. what i DONT like abot it are the few people who mistreat people based on them being legally or illegally here. being that they are paying taxes, etc etc, that would separate them from the "leeching" illegals.
i will someday become a us citizen, because i will do whatever it takes. once i get to senior high im going to join the marine corps, and by all means im willing to die for this country.
the country, not the people in it.

that being said, i wont come back to this thread again.
Like another poster, I am ashamed of many of the people on this forum. Such hate; it is unbelievable. Obtaining your citizenship is a long, laborious and expensive propostion. I am not necessarily an advocate of illegals, but, I surely understand why one would become one.

Both of my grandparents were illegal. Grandma was from Norway, Grandpa from Ireland. (hmmm, no Spanish speaking here...) If they had not taken the chance and came to this country to make money to send home to their families...and, ultimately, met...guess what?? I wouldn't be here now! Both are now long deceased, but, I still look up to the courage and determination that both demonstrated so long ago.

How many of the hate-spewing posters may very well have an illegal immigrant or two in your proverbial family closet? In the early 1900's, that was common. So, you are then throwing stones at the very thing that literally gave YOU birth and citizenship. Something to think about?

This young man (OP) was very eloquently trying to make a statement against such hatred that he an his family has endured. I am sure that he hoped that by exposing it, some would be eradicated. Unfortunately, it simply fanned the fires of hatred. What most Americans fail to remember is that we are ALL immigrants to this country; none of us is a native...someone, somewhere in our family tree came from somewhere. (and that includes the American Indians if you research the history correctly). So, it kind of makes you hatemongers somewhat hypocritical, doesn't it??
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,884,971 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs View Post
Like another poster, I am ashamed of many of the people on this forum. Such hate; it is unbelievable. Obtaining your citizenship is a long, laborious and expensive propostion. I am not necessarily an advocate of illegals, but, I surely understand why one would become one.

Both of my grandparents were illegal. Grandma was from Norway, Grandpa from Ireland. (hmmm, no Spanish speaking here...) If they had not taken the chance and came to this country to make money to send home to their families...and, ultimately, met...guess what?? I wouldn't be here now! Both are now long deceased, but, I still look up to the courage and determination that both demonstrated so long ago.

How many of the hate-spewing posters may very well have an illegal immigrant or two in your proverbial family closet? In the early 1900's, that was common. So, you are then throwing stones at the very thing that literally gave YOU birth and citizenship. Something to think about?

This young man (OP) was very eloquently trying to make a statement against such hatred that he an his family has endured. I am sure that he hoped that by exposing it, some would be eradicated. Unfortunately, it simply fanned the fires of hatred. What most Americans fail to remember is that we are ALL immigrants to this country; none of us is a native...someone, somewhere in our family tree came from somewhere. (and that includes the American Indians if you research the history correctly). So, it kind of makes you hatemongers somewhat hypocritical, doesn't it??
Please enlighten us. What is expensive? My wife has gone through the process so I happen to know what it cost.
6 grand as one individual illegal paid a mule to smuggle her is about twice the cost we have invested to date.
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:26 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,897,260 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs View Post
Like another poster, I am ashamed of many of the people on this forum. Such hate; it is unbelievable. Obtaining your citizenship is a long, laborious and expensive propostion. I am not necessarily an advocate of illegals, but, I surely understand why one would become one.

Both of my grandparents were illegal. Grandma was from Norway, Grandpa from Ireland. (hmmm, no Spanish speaking here...) If they had not taken the chance and came to this country to make money to send home to their families...and, ultimately, met...guess what?? I wouldn't be here now! Both are now long deceased, but, I still look up to the courage and determination that both demonstrated so long ago.

How many of the hate-spewing posters may very well have an illegal immigrant or two in your proverbial family closet? In the early 1900's, that was common. So, you are then throwing stones at the very thing that literally gave YOU birth and citizenship. Something to think about?

This young man (OP) was very eloquently trying to make a statement against such hatred that he an his family has endured. I am sure that he hoped that by exposing it, some would be eradicated. Unfortunately, it simply fanned the fires of hatred. What most Americans fail to remember is that we are ALL immigrants to this country; none of us is a native...someone, somewhere in our family tree came from somewhere. (and that includes the American Indians if you research the history correctly). So, it kind of makes you hatemongers somewhat hypocritical, doesn't it??
Well gee, since my great great grandparents were brought over on a slave ship, that would disqualify them and anyone in my lineage from ever having been "immigrants". We have however over come: slavery, being considered 3/5ths human, raped, murdered, denied: human, civil rights, the right to vote, attend schools, the right to own land, or keep our children, and a multitude of other things.

Yet we remained here and worked to free ourselves from bondage. We could have easily fled like the cowards of today, invaded another country and burden its taxpayers by expecting and demanding things we were not entitled to, but we didn't.

We've been called many things but never immigrants.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 09-07-2008 at 08:39 PM..
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Mexifornia, formerly California
31 posts, read 51,178 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs View Post
Like another poster, I am ashamed of many of the people on this forum. Such hate; it is unbelievable. Obtaining your citizenship is a long, laborious and expensive propostion. I am not necessarily an advocate of illegals, but, I surely understand why one would become one.
Good to know, so next time I find something in my life that is hard, long or expensive, I will just break the law or crap on some other nations laws go get what i want. Maybe someone will sympathize with me. I guess it's cool to pick and choose which laws to obey based on your financial situation.

I had no idea coming to the US was a right, I though it was a privileged. Color me stupid.
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:35 PM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,325 posts, read 4,693,721 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by another1 View Post
more or less, as long as your not bringing a bomb with you or that kind of stuff.
which doesent happen around there. brazil has never been to a war, and there are no terrorist attacks.
in fact i have never heard of any american that went to brazil on vacation and didn't like it.
----------------

The crime rate in Brazil is beyond unreal.

The poverty is beyond words. Lot's of neighbors here in my area (Doral/South Florida) from Brazil and many recent to USA.

So it's not like they are speaking of 'old" Brazil.
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs View Post
Like another poster, I am ashamed of many of the people on this forum. Such hate; it is unbelievable. Obtaining your citizenship is a long, laborious and expensive propostion. I am not necessarily an advocate of illegals, but, I surely understand why one would become one.

Both of my grandparents were illegal. Grandma was from Norway, Grandpa from Ireland. (hmmm, no Spanish speaking here...) If they had not taken the chance and came to this country to make money to send home to their families...and, ultimately, met...guess what?? I wouldn't be here now! Both are now long deceased, but, I still look up to the courage and determination that both demonstrated so long ago.

How many of the hate-spewing posters may very well have an illegal immigrant or two in your proverbial family closet? In the early 1900's, that was common. So, you are then throwing stones at the very thing that literally gave YOU birth and citizenship. Something to think about?

This young man (OP) was very eloquently trying to make a statement against such hatred that he an his family has endured. I am sure that he hoped that by exposing it, some would be eradicated. Unfortunately, it simply fanned the fires of hatred. What most Americans fail to remember is that we are ALL immigrants to this country; none of us is a native...someone, somewhere in our family tree came from somewhere. (and that includes the American Indians if you research the history correctly). So, it kind of makes you hatemongers somewhat hypocritical, doesn't it??
Things have changed: and, your illegal immigrant ancestors can count their lucky stars they did not get deported upon being caught.

Simply put: we do not need additional people------------300+ million is plenty.
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Old 09-07-2008, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,407 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs View Post
Like another poster, I am ashamed of many of the people on this forum. Such hate; it is unbelievable. Obtaining your citizenship is a long, laborious and expensive propostion. I am not necessarily an advocate of illegals, but, I surely understand why one would become one.

Both of my grandparents were illegal. Grandma was from Norway, Grandpa from Ireland. (hmmm, no Spanish speaking here...) If they had not taken the chance and came to this country to make money to send home to their families...and, ultimately, met...guess what?? I wouldn't be here now! Both are now long deceased, but, I still look up to the courage and determination that both demonstrated so long ago.

How many of the hate-spewing posters may very well have an illegal immigrant or two in your proverbial family closet? In the early 1900's, that was common. So, you are then throwing stones at the very thing that literally gave YOU birth and citizenship. Something to think about?

This young man (OP) was very eloquently trying to make a statement against such hatred that he an his family has endured. I am sure that he hoped that by exposing it, some would be eradicated. Unfortunately, it simply fanned the fires of hatred. What most Americans fail to remember is that we are ALL immigrants to this country; none of us is a native...someone, somewhere in our family tree came from somewhere. (and that includes the American Indians if you research the history correctly). So, it kind of makes you hatemongers somewhat hypocritical, doesn't it??
Blah, blah, blah!
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Old 09-07-2008, 09:13 PM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,325 posts, read 4,693,721 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
OK, here it goes........nobody that posts regularily on this forum is unaware of the role businesses play in the illegal immigration drama. We are aware, it is disgusting and we have talked ad naseum about what would be a good solution for it.
We have also gone a step further and plan ways to contact our representatives in government -both local and federal- about illegal immigration and the role they play in it.
And of course making ones way through us immigration paperwork is an expensive and ridiculously convoluted process with many duplicates and many agencies saying x is needed while other agencies say no y is needed instead. (Unlike you, I actually have first hand knowledge of the USBCIS)

I wonder what was taught at the university that you attended that you believe that the us a) owes the world a place, because we were all immigrants at one point and b) we have room, money, jobs and infrastructure for everyone who would like to come. Neither statement is true. You see, the USA -- much like every nation on earth -- has sovereignity. That would mean the us government has the right and the obligation to control immigration by deciding what type of people to let in, making sure those people do not have criminal histories and making sure that we can handle the immigrants that do come. Because money does not grow on trees. Neither does housing, jobs, schools, air quality, land preservation etc......Have you talked to an ecologist lately? Overpopulation is a *****, whether it be from too much reproduction or too much uncontrolled immigration.

So, what I would hope you have learned is that being anti illegal immigration doesn't equate with bigotry, xenophobia, racism, or even unkindness. What it is about is being realistic enough to know that while it would make us feel good to let everyone into the us that would like to, it would us a pollution ridden third world country in short order.
-------------------

There is a Hospital in South Florida called Jackson it is taking a BRUTAL financial beating due to illegal health care.
Ofcourse the Miami political Cosa Nostra couldn't care less as action or lack of them speak louder than empty speeches .

I suspect the Hospital which serves much of Miami in emergency might one day close up as the unpaid illegal bills are killing it.
Than the pro illegals will blame the Hospital instead of the real cause.
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Old 09-07-2008, 11:20 PM
 
37 posts, read 62,479 times
Reputation: 23
Lightbulb ...somewhat frustrated and confused, but whatever.

OK, here it goes........nobody that posts regularily on this forum is unaware of the role businesses play in the illegal immigration drama. We are aware, it is disgusting and we have talked ad naseum about what would be a good solution for it.

I wonder what was taught at the university that you attended that you believe that the us a) owes the world a place, because we were all immigrants at one point and b) we have room, money, jobs and infrastructure for everyone who would like to come.

It really shows a lack of maturity and/or respect toward another that you would be personally insulting by - a) berating me for being a newby (I'm assuming you were once a new member, right?), and - b) being extremely rude by making a hateful and even ignorant statement about some university that someone attended, neither the person or the universitIES being at all known to you.
No comment in my statement implied that I believe REGARDLESS of anything, or AT ALL COSTS, illegal immigrants should be entitled (?) to our full commitment and bended-knee services. Ridiculous. Was something in my statement directed at you? Because, if not, I am at a loss to understand why such a base reply was made. My statement was pointed at stereotypical indivuduals - they certainly do exist in large numbers - who don't CARE about looking at both sides of these human beings, or at all the facts, who show NO mercy, and who lack even the base characteristics of being just humane toward others. That there should, in addition to the - of course - NEEDED laws and overseeing, be even some tollerance exercised toward at least some of those who certainly ARE doing all they can to become legal citizens. Did you bother to notice that the example I used was of someone who - from START TO FINISH of leaving her country and coming to America, was going through the correct processes? I still believe that my comments regarding bigotry and prejudice and hatred are applicable so much of the time, and that such makes finding good solutions much more difficult. My reference to the U.S. being made up of people who originally brutalized others was directly relating to such hatred and blind ignorance that is often THE stumbling blocks of advance and betterment for ALL involved - including yourself.
In truth, you did nothing to dispell or even address some of those opinions. And the rude, personal comments... wow.
I don't have anything more to say to you.

There were several other posts and replies that did address the same or similar issues and problems of which I spoke, definitely all valid points to be made and/or discussed. And, I don't think anyone - myself included - is above learning more about such issues or being able to be influenced by hearing all points that are well made.

Concerning the post regarding the Hospital in Florida suffering from illegal health care expenses, that is a good and real example of the harm which can result from the "illegals", sure. That's a hard one, I would imagine, with people needing medical care whether legal/illegal/broke, etc... I definitely do not have the expertise or firsthand exposure/experience to really even address such an issue as that.

Again, I can't help but feel that the point I was making was almost entirely missed, by some...
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