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Old 07-19-2008, 04:15 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,172,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Not at all, silly is the theme this afternoon.

Seriously, it would be an understatement to state that your posts on multiculturalism and other arguments on the Dual Citizenship thread are outstanding. If you have more to share, please do.
I agree-macmeal they have been outstanding posts. Share if you like-you have an audience
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Old 07-19-2008, 04:23 PM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,325 posts, read 4,693,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I'd like to make a statement here regarding 'multiculturalism'....but I guess that would just be silly.

I am for multiculturalism but sharia law is a horror . If your a woman your damned if you do damned if you dont .

Sharia divorce in Taliban strongholds is the woman/girl is killed and end of marriage .

Men are WRONG if they dont beat the #### out of their wives for the slightest thing and the "police" if called will do it for them.

MOST Muslims arent into this vile world but some are and it seems to be taking a hold in some parts of Europe . In Afghanistan Pushtuns dont abide by this vile law but Taliban does and they enforced it.

Thats the problem I have with the pro sharia law Muslims in Europe . It seems to be catching on with some and some can turn to many.

I dont like any Relegious extremist as not into Relegion at all but sharia law is pure evil and a lie only the poor have their hands chopped off for stealing food,etc never the well to do or the Mullahs.

Europe better get rid of ANYone preaching this and they havent thats the problem.
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Old 07-20-2008, 10:56 AM
 
608 posts, read 881,125 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
"The fight of our lives" is certainly not an exaggeration. I honestly believe if we don't succeed, we will in fact lose our country to the globalist elite.
It is a situation not far from what we experience in the US. I have been in Germany for almost a year now. I see the same issues between Germans and Turks as I see between those who are against illegal immigrants and illegal immigrants and even immigrants in general in the US. The common theme between the two is that the host countries encouraged immigration in general to fulfill labor needs. History not only repeats itself but it runs in parallels.

http://www.carleton.ca/ces/EULearning/docs/turkish.pdf (broken link)
Quote:
The European labour market, after the Second World War, faced a shortage of labour due to the loss of young men of working age. To satisfy the growing demand for labour, many countries, including Germany, found the solution in recruiting migrant workers. In the 1950s and 1960s, many migrant workers from Turkey came to Germany for temporary work.
Quote:
However, many workers had started families during their work term in Germany. With their families already rooted in Germany, these workers felt it would be too difficult to uproot their families, and decided to stay in Germany.

Last edited by HoustonCynic; 07-20-2008 at 10:57 AM.. Reason: missed words
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
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HoustonCynic:

Several crucial differences here:

#1: the Turks, Spaniards and especially the Italian guest workers were in postwar (West) Germany legally.

#2: till at least recently; under German law there was no birthright citizenship for the children of even legal residents.

#3: German law was also sexist in the sense that birthright German citizenship only came from the father--------not the mother.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:14 AM
 
608 posts, read 881,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
HoustonCynic:

Several crucial differences here:

#1: the Turks, Spaniards and especially the Italian guest workers were in postwar (West) Germany legally.

#2: till at least recently; under German law there was no birthright citizenship for the children of even legal residents.

#3: German law was also sexist in the sense that birthright German citizenship only came from the father--------not the mother.
Agreed but the overall idea was that the workers would eventually return to their home countries. The host countries never intended the guest workers to stay, start families and adopt the host country as their own. The US had similar programs in the past and we expected workers to return but many did not. The one big difference today is since there is an abundant supply of illegals the US government doesn't need to pass any guest worker programs. Which is why I believe the lines between immigration and illegal-immigration are now blurred and our Government is happy with it that way as in the bigger plan with programs like NAFTA we are on our way to open borders. The only way we can protect workers in the US against depressed or unfair wages and unsafe working conditions is to ensure the labor and worker safety laws apply to all workers.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:25 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luiso View Post
I am for multiculturalism but sharia law is a horror . If your a woman your damned if you do damned if you dont .

Sharia divorce in Taliban strongholds is the woman/girl is killed and end of marriage .

Men are WRONG if they dont beat the #### out of their wives for the slightest thing and the "police" if called will do it for them.

MOST Muslims arent into this vile world but some are and it seems to be taking a hold in some parts of Europe . In Afghanistan Pushtuns dont abide by this vile law but Taliban does and they enforced it.

Thats the problem I have with the pro sharia law Muslims in Europe . It seems to be catching on with some and some can turn to many.

I dont like any Relegious extremist as not into Relegion at all but sharia law is pure evil and a lie only the poor have their hands chopped off for stealing food,etc never the well to do or the Mullahs.

Europe better get rid of ANYone preaching this and they havent thats the problem.
You are helping me make my point....and thus, of course, I agree with you. You claim to be "for multiculturalism"....then you immediately proceed to make a long, well-explained mention of someone's cultural attributes which you find abhorrent, repulsive, and (I assume) unacceptable.

That's always been my point. "We"...('our culture')...have every right to set limits as to what is, and is not, acceptable for inclusion into "our" society. Given the fact that America has always accepted many contributions, from many cultures, I think the record shows we have nothing to apologize for if we, at this time in history, feel like setting a few limits...and that this does NOT make us "mean, racist, or xenophobic".

WE are a pretty 'laid back' society...but some things are just WRONG...and it's our right, and our duty, to point this out. Sharia law is one....and I firmly believe there are many other "things"....which go on around the world, that may be "OK" there, but are not "OK" here.

Realize also, that your own post would be condemned in some circles, as being "intolerant" of the things you mention....you'd be accused of "not understanding" the folks who do this stuff, and being "narrow-minded". To which I would reply, "where is it written that ANY society...even a liberal one such as ours...must tolerate EVERYTHING? ...and who says so? ...and if we DON'T, who says that makes us 'intolerant', and by what right do they say this?".....

Once again, cultures are NOT totally compatible...that's what makes them so different...and while we, as a liberal society, are open to all sorts of 'input', and accepting of MOST of what we encounter, at some point, "culture" entails a person's concept of right vs wrong.....good vs evil....fair vs unfair....and THOSE things really aren't 'negotiable'.

Last edited by macmeal; 07-20-2008 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:37 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
Agreed but the overall idea was that the workers would eventually return to their home countries. The host countries never intended the guest workers to stay, start families and adopt the host country as their own. The US had similar programs in the past and we expected workers to return but many did not. The one big difference today is since there is an abundant supply of illegals the US government doesn't need to pass any guest worker programs. Which is why I believe the lines between immigration and illegal-immigration are now blurred and our Government is happy with it that way as in the bigger plan with programs like NAFTA we are on our way to open borders. The only way we can protect workers in the US against depressed or unfair wages and unsafe working conditions is to ensure the labor and worker safety laws apply to all workers.
Once again, I can't get anyone to comment on the old "bracero" program. It ended in the 1960's. It was a mutually agreed-upon program between the US and Mexican governments. It supplied American agriculture (and some industries) with willing Mexican labor. It benefitted both groups, but it was understood to be a BUSINESS arrangement. No mention was made of any 'right to live here', and nobody took it to mean such. It was temporary labor, it paid a fair wage, it had plenty of 'takers', and it served the employers, while providing needed income for the employees.

Whether most people today have just never heard of the program, or don't believe it ever existed, or just find it very 'uncomfortable' to discuss (since it puts the lie to the argument that the illegals of today 'just want to work'), I couldn't say. But it DID exist, and it served its purpose.

Maybe the problem is, that that "purpose" just isn't the one we have in mind anymore.....(?)
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:42 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,019,301 times
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Hopefully bolstering macmeal's multiculturalism post, this aphorism-
"Culture is making a nice bowl out of your enemy's skull. Civilization is putting you in prison for doing this."
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:45 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,297,320 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky Cynick View Post
Germans Unhappy With Muslim Mosque Construction

German citizens in Cologne are outraged at the planned construction of a giant mosque in the area, and they aren't the only ones. Spiegel Online reports that the scheduled construction of more than 180 mosques in Germany is stirring not only right-wing resentment but also left-wing opposition. Reporters described "turmoil" and an "enraged" audience at the school auditorium in Ehrenfeld where the Cologne mosque was publicly discussed. "Ill will over mosques like the one being built in Cologne is spreading rapidly throughout Germany, often to the surprise of local politicians. For a long time the establishment of Muslim prayer rooms provoked little protest, housed as they were mostly in residential buildings, shops and back courtyards. Recently, though, there has been an increasing number of acts of protest, some violent. Molotov cocktails were thrown through mosque windows in the Bavarian town of Lauingen; Christians set protest crosses inscribed with 'Terra christiana est,' or 'This is Christian land,' on the grounds of a mosque in Hanover; and construction trailers went up in flames in the Berlin district of Pankow."
One more sign that the world is sick, with the disease of the I and mine consciousness.

MY country, MY religion, MY culture, MY land, only has produced selfishness, suffering, unsound perception and dogma.

Slavery hasn't gone away, we are still slaves of patriotism and prisioners of what we call culture, the meme that multuralism doesn't work is still very deeply ingrained in our lower and limited self.

It is funny how we believe we are in the peak of cultural, scientifical and technological achievement, when it is clear that we are still in the dark ages.

Divisions are artificial boundaries produced by small minds.

Love is the Light that will dissolve all barriers between families, religions and nations.

Mind is the forerunner of (all evil) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they. If one speaks or acts with wicked mind, suffering follows one, even as the wheel follows the hoof of the draught-ox.

Mind is the forerunner of (all good) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they. If one speaks or acts with pure mind, AFFECTION follows one, even as one's shadow that never leaves.

``He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'' in those who harbour such thoughts hatred is not appeased.

``He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'' in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred is appeased.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:45 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
Hopefully bolstering macmeal's multiculturalism post, this aphorism-
"Culture is making a nice bowl out of your enemy's skull. Civilization is putting you in prison for doing this."

I like that.....cute, but so true !.....It really does make a very valid point..."culture" can mean just about anything. Exactly how 'multi' do we want to be ?
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