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Old 07-20-2008, 12:51 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,642,976 times
Reputation: 2983

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
One more sign that the world is sick, with the disease of the I and mine consciousness.

MY country, MY religion, MY culture, MY land, only has produced selfishness, suffering, unsound perception and dogma.

Slavery hasn't gone away, we are still slaves of patriotism and prisioners of what we call culture, the meme that multuralism doesn't work is still very deeply ingrained in our lower and limited self.

It is funny how we believe we are in the peak of cultural, scientifical and technological achievement, when it is clear that we are still in the dark ages.

Divisions are artificial boundaries produced by small minds.

Love is the Light that will dissolve all barriers between families, religions and nations.

Mind is the forerunner of (all evil) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they. If one speaks or acts with wicked mind, suffering follows one, even as the wheel follows the hoof of the draught-ox.

Mind is the forerunner of (all good) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they. If one speaks or acts with pure mind, AFFECTION follows one, even as one's shadow that never leaves.

``He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'' in those who harbour such thoughts hatred is not appeased.

``He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'' in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred is appeased.
I can't argue with this, except to say when I drop a concrete block on my foot, it seems to hurt me a lot worse than it hurts you. I don't know how we'll ever get away from that "I and mine consciousness".

But it IS an interesting subject.....thanks, Travelling Fella...
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:09 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,316,013 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I can't argue with this, except to say when I drop a concrete block on my foot, it seems to hurt me a lot worse than it hurts you. I don't know how we'll ever get away from that "I and mine consciousness".

But it IS an interesting subject.....thanks, Travelling Fella...
You are welcome my friend

I believe that if we were able to pull us out from medieval ages, and if societies have evolved, we can hope we will continue evolving towards a golden age, this will happen either by hard and painful experience or by the development of wisdom, and it will happen as fast as we want to.
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Old 07-20-2008, 03:16 PM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,325 posts, read 4,703,042 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
You are helping me make my point....and thus, of course, I agree with you. You claim to be "for multiculturalism"....then you immediately proceed to make a long, well-explained mention of someone's cultural attributes which you find abhorrent, repulsive, and (I assume) unacceptable.

That's always been my point. "We"...('our culture')...have every right to set limits as to what is, and is not, acceptable for inclusion into "our" society. Given the fact that America has always accepted many contributions, from many cultures, I think the record shows we have nothing to apologize for if we, at this time in history, feel like setting a few limits...and that this does NOT make us "mean, racist, or xenophobic".

WE are a pretty 'laid back' society...but some things are just WRONG...and it's our right, and our duty, to point this out. Sharia law is one....and I firmly believe there are many other "things"....which go on around the world, that may be "OK" there, but are not "OK" here.

Realize also, that your own post would be condemned in some circles, as being "intolerant" of the things you mention....you'd be accused of "not understanding" the folks who do this stuff, and being "narrow-minded". To which I would reply, "where is it written that ANY society...even a liberal one such as ours...must tolerate EVERYTHING? ...and who says so? ...and if we DON'T, who says that makes us 'intolerant', and by what right do they say this?".....

Once again, cultures are NOT totally compatible...that's what makes them so different...and while we, as a liberal society, are open to all sorts of 'input', and accepting of MOST of what we encounter, at some point, "culture" entails a person's concept of right vs wrong.....good vs evil....fair vs unfair....and THOSE things really aren't 'negotiable'.

I am for multi cultures but I am not for Relegious extremist . I do agree with you we CANT tolerate everything but MOST cultures are great infact all of them its only the Extremist I dont like.
I dont support illegal immigration because my problem with open borders are the drugs POURING in and illegal weapons not to mention gangs .

ANY culture is fine with me aslong as they dont try to impose their relegion on me .
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Old 07-20-2008, 03:21 PM
 
608 posts, read 882,541 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Once again, I can't get anyone to comment on the old "bracero" program. It ended in the 1960's. It was a mutually agreed-upon program between the US and Mexican governments. It supplied American agriculture (and some industries) with willing Mexican labor. It benefitted both groups, but it was understood to be a BUSINESS arrangement. No mention was made of any 'right to live here', and nobody took it to mean such. It was temporary labor, it paid a fair wage, it had plenty of 'takers', and it served the employers, while providing needed income for the employees.

Whether most people today have just never heard of the program, or don't believe it ever existed, or just find it very 'uncomfortable' to discuss (since it puts the lie to the argument that the illegals of today 'just want to work'), I couldn't say. But it DID exist, and it served its purpose.

Maybe the problem is, that that "purpose" just isn't the one we have in mind anymore.....(?)
The Bracero Program had is pluses and minuses. One of the more controversial aspects of it was that the Mexican farmers were to sign contracts (of course in English) and usually did not receive their pay until the end of the season. Sometimes not at all. Hmmm sound familiar? The program promoted the idea of second class laborers and all the abuses that come with it.

If we are to reinstate a Bracero Program, workers must have the same rights and protections as US citizens: wages, job safety and workers compensation. If we really need additional laborers to do the work that US citizens will not do then this should be a no brainer. But we should not allow abuse and unfair treatment of guest workers either.
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Romeoville, IL
1,238 posts, read 2,184,844 times
Reputation: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
One more sign that the world is sick, with the disease of the I and mine consciousness.

MY country, MY religion, MY culture, MY land, only has produced selfishness, suffering, unsound perception and dogma.

Slavery hasn't gone away, we are still slaves of patriotism and prisioners of what we call culture, the meme that multuralism doesn't work is still very deeply ingrained in our lower and limited self.

It is funny how we believe we are in the peak of cultural, scientifical and technological achievement, when it is clear that we are still in the dark ages.

Divisions are artificial boundaries produced by small minds.

Love is the Light that will dissolve all barriers between families, religions and nations.

Mind is the forerunner of (all evil) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they. If one speaks or acts with wicked mind, suffering follows one, even as the wheel follows the hoof of the draught-ox.

Mind is the forerunner of (all good) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they. If one speaks or acts with pure mind, AFFECTION follows one, even as one's shadow that never leaves.

``He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'' in those who harbour such thoughts hatred is not appeased.

``He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me,'' in those who do not harbour such thoughts hatred is appeased.

Have you ever stopped to think that many people don't want multiculturalism to work? Or that we DO in fact feel superior to other cultures?

I'll stick to being narrow-minded, thanks!
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:06 PM
 
6,013 posts, read 6,745,629 times
Reputation: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
I am torn on this one:

Apparently; most of the Muslims in Germany are legal-----and, the vast majority of the practitioners are peaceful.

OTOH: when the dominant society kisses the feet of those Islamists who want Sharia (literal Islamic law)------that can/will backfire against even the moderate Muslim people.
sharia law isnt practiced in all countries governedby islam
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by city414 View Post
sharia law isnt practiced in all countries governedby islam
You are correct.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:21 PM
 
25,367 posts, read 37,646,444 times
Reputation: 13286
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
I am torn on this one:

Apparently; most of the Muslims in Germany are legal-----and, the vast majority of the practitioners are peaceful.

OTOH: when the dominant society kisses the feet of those Islamists who want Sharia (literal Islamic law)------that can/will backfire against even the moderate Muslim people.
Most of the muslims in Europe are illegal and are walking around with scarfs, burka's and don't speak the countries laguage. The issue is even bigger than here with the illegals. In Europe the are plenty of years ahead with the issues. The muslims (legal and illegal) are demanding so much and it is going to be a huge issue. In Spain there are more muslims than original Spanish people. The distance to get there is not much and from htere they just cross the borders because there is no customs anymore.
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:06 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,642,976 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
The Bracero Program had is pluses and minuses. One of the more controversial aspects of it was that the Mexican farmers were to sign contracts (of course in English) and usually did not receive their pay until the end of the season. Sometimes not at all. Hmmm sound familiar? The program promoted the idea of second class laborers and all the abuses that come with it.

If we are to reinstate a Bracero Program, workers must have the same rights and protections as US citizens: wages, job safety and workers compensation. If we really need additional laborers to do the work that US citizens will not do then this should be a no brainer. But we should not allow abuse and unfair treatment of guest workers either.
I agree that there were some discrepancies, and I do recall some disputes over compensation. It seems to me, though, that these things would be relatively easy to oversee....and to correct, if neccessary.

Meanwhile, I can only add that, "If you think the BRACERO PROGRAM was a nightmare to administer, wait until you try ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION...you ain't seen NOTHIN' yet"...
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