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Old 09-06-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17682

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inglorious View Post
The IRS also gives ITINs to those w/out a SS number. 2.5 million people filled with an ITIN.
Out of the 20 million estimated Illegals and their anchor kids? That doesn't sound like a good deal for the tax payers subsidizing the other 17.5 million and their anchor kids now does it?

Let's make this easy. What if your Govt knocked on your door and said you are going to raise a kid that isn't yours whether you like it or not? That is pretty much what is happening now.
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inglorious View Post
The IRS also gives ITINs to those w/out a SS number. 2.5 million people filled with an ITIN.
2.5 million out of an estimated 20 million? slightly over 10% pay taxes and you would use this to justify the burden they place upon us? So 10% may have stolen an ID but also used a ITIN? I am sorry but this just is not a very convincing argument. How many legal citizens have been harmed by illegals? That is the issue that should be on everyones mind. We went to war over 911. Less people died on 911 than to illegals.....
We need to enforce our laws, all of them, and not just when there is no sob story. Let the countries of origin educate their own citizens.
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:26 AM
 
65 posts, read 65,692 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
An individual who is in the US illegally, either because they deliberately ignored out immigration laws or were brought here as a child but are now old enough to realize that being in the US is wrong, should serve as an example to no one.
So those people that went through hardships, more so than most (and most likely you) and achieved great things in their lives can't serve as a role model because of a piece of paper?

I think that having more role models in these communities is actually a good idea.
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:28 AM
 
65 posts, read 65,692 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Out of the 20 million estimated Illegals and their anchor kids? That doesn't sound like a good deal for the tax payers subsidizing the other 17.5 million and their anchor kids now does it?

Let's make this easy. What if your Govt knocked on your door and said you are going to raise a kid that isn't yours whether you like it or not? That is pretty much what is happening now.
Well, I paid for your army. Also planning still deciding on whether or not I should enter into the navy during grad school (on the one hand my country needs me, but my mom can't go through another child in the military). So I mean, we all have to help out those less fortunate in the world as well as in our nation.
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:36 AM
 
65 posts, read 65,692 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
2.5 million out of an estimated 20 million? slightly over 10% pay taxes and you would use this to justify the burden they place upon us? So 10% may have stolen an ID but also used a ITIN? I am sorry but this just is not a very convincing argument. How many legal citizens have been harmed by illegals? That is the issue that should be on everyones mind. We went to war over 911. Less people died on 911 than to illegals.....
We need to enforce our laws, all of them, and not just when there is no sob story. Let the countries of origin educate their own citizens.
There's more like 8 million according to current estimates...With that said, most aren't even stolen but outright "fake". We didn't go to war over 9/11. We went to war over terror (remember the embassy bombings, the plant we blew up in Sudan, etc...9/11 was the final blow) More people have died over "terror" than illegal immigrants.

If anything, the war on terror proved that a war of ideals is a bad idea. We should make laws and fight wars that make sense. We should have a sense based style of enforcement. Find ways to enable those that did work hard to obtain citizenship, encourage those who want to enter legally to do so, and actually focus on the larger issue...poverty. Poverty in the US is highest in illegal immigrant communities. These communities are also heavily inhabited by our citizens and nationals. But, we neglect these people (be they illegal or not). So we need to focus on helping these communities best.
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Old 09-07-2009, 07:00 AM
 
291 posts, read 353,101 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
So, the guy who wrote the bill to shut them out realizes his mistake now and will try to reverse it. I don't see how some of you are claiming this as a victory.
naw. its like saying sorry no change to a pan handler at the corner.
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Old 09-07-2009, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inglorious View Post
There's more like 8 million according to current estimates...With that said, most aren't even stolen but outright "fake". We didn't go to war over 9/11. We went to war over terror (remember the embassy bombings, the plant we blew up in Sudan, etc...9/11 was the final blow) More people have died over "terror" than illegal immigrants.

If anything, the war on terror proved that a war of ideals is a bad idea. We should make laws and fight wars that make sense. We should have a sense based style of enforcement. Find ways to enable those that did work hard to obtain citizenship, encourage those who want to enter legally to do so, and actually focus on the larger issue...poverty. Poverty in the US is highest in illegal immigrant communities. These communities are also heavily inhabited by our citizens and nationals. But, we neglect these people (be they illegal or not). So we need to focus on helping these communities best.
Total BS.....
We went to war over 911. The Taliban would not hand Binladen over to us and we attacked afghanistan for that reason. Iraq was an add on.
As far as more people dieing due to Terror? I only count US citizens and legal residents. Who gets killed in another country is their concern.
You are wrong again of course. Illegals have killed more US citizens than were killed on 911, and not by just a little. Now factor in additional crimes.
Rape, arson, drugs,Theft and the numbers explode.
Find ways for those that did work hard to obtain citizenship?
How about we find ways for those who enter legally to find citizenship?
Lets reward our honest immigrants. Rewarding criminal behavior only creates more of the same. The last amnesty proves this as true.
No sir we should not reward the illegals for the crimes they have committed.
Study: 1 million sex crimes by illegals
Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily
Impacts Of Illegal Immigration: Crime
Now can you you provide any links that show illegals are not criminals? That illegals do not victimize this country? That US citizens are not paying a hefty price for the illegal invasion?
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:51 AM
 
65 posts, read 65,692 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Total BS.....
We went to war over 911. The Taliban would not hand Binladen over to us and we attacked afghanistan for that reason. Iraq was an add on.
As far as more people dieing due to Terror? I only count US citizens and legal residents. Who gets killed in another country is their concern.
You are wrong again of course. Illegals have killed more US citizens than were killed on 911, and not by just a little. Now factor in additional crimes.
Rape, arson, drugs,Theft and the numbers explode.
Find ways for those that did work hard to obtain citizenship?
How about we find ways for those who enter legally to find citizenship?
Lets reward our honest immigrants. Rewarding criminal behavior only creates more of the same. The last amnesty proves this as true.
No sir we should not reward the illegals for the crimes they have committed.
Study: 1 million sex crimes by illegals
Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily
Impacts Of Illegal Immigration: Crime
Now can you you provide any links that show illegals are not criminals? That illegals do not victimize this country? That US citizens are not paying a hefty price for the illegal invasion?
Gotta read up on your history there. If we went to war solely for 9/11, then why did we lump Iraq together with Afghanistan even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11? Plus, if we went solely for 9/11 we also would have entered into Somalia, Eritrea, and Sudan. We did not. The Taliban would not hand over Bin Laden since he was most likely not even in Afghanistan. He could have easily been in the other countries mentioned. We went to war over terror. Not just 9/11. Under Clinton, a war against terror was a possibility (against Bin Laden). Just like we entered WWII with Pearl Harbor...but did not go to war solely due to Pearl Harbor.

Concerning terrorism, of course 9/11 killed less people than illegal immigrants. 9/11 killed less people than die at the hands of minors. 9/11 killed less people than die of lightening strikes. 9/11 killed less people than die by MOST things. Terror is not a huge threat.

The numbers don't explode. If that's the case, why is it that crime remains consistently low with an inflow of illegal immigrants? Even in communities with high number of illegal immigrants, the numbers have either stabilized or dropped.

Let's take Compton as an example. Prior to the late 1990s, it was majority Black. Now it a majority Hispanic city with a high illegal immigrant population. The massive crime increase in Compton started in the 1970s due to a collapse in manufacturing in Southern California. The real estate bubble of the 1980s made housing unaffordable in Los Angeles County. Cities like Moreno Valley, Palmdale, Lancaster, Perris were attractive choices for middle income families. Thus, what was left in Compton was the poorest population. The riots of the 1990s served to continue this out migration. By the late 1990s and 2000s illegal immigrants came to Compton. There has a been a turn around in the region (as compared to other times in its history). Homicides plunge, hope rises in Compton -- latimes.com

Entering in legally currently needs an overhaul. The system is flawed. That's why there are people willing to pay THOUSANDS to enter illegally.

Why don't we ban marriage? Since spousal abuse accounts for 112 deaths a day.

Hispanics constitute 80% of illegal immigrants...currently they are also at the national average in terms of incarceration rates. Also, the interesting thing is that there are MANY conflicting reports concerning raising and even lowering crime rates by illegal immigrants.

However, what I do know is that we are in the 21st century and need to realize that nationalism is not about a flag, language, or institutions...but rather it's about humanity, economics, and progress.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:27 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inglorious View Post
So those people that went through hardships, more so than most (and most likely you) and achieved great things in their lives can't serve as a role model because of a piece of paper?

I think that having more role models in these communities is actually a good idea.
Who are all these people who have achieved great things in their lives and what great things have they achieved? The Unabomber graduated from Harvard at age 20, earned a PhD and was teaching at Berkeley at age 25. Most would agree that these are great achievements, but he is still a criminal.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:46 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inglorious View Post
Gotta read up on your history there. If we went to war solely for 9/11, then why did we lump Iraq together with Afghanistan even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11? Plus, if we went solely for 9/11 we also would have entered into Somalia, Eritrea, and Sudan. We did not. The Taliban would not hand over Bin Laden since he was most likely not even in Afghanistan. He could have easily been in the other countries mentioned. We went to war over terror. Not just 9/11. Under Clinton, a war against terror was a possibility (against Bin Laden). Just like we entered WWII with Pearl Harbor...but did not go to war solely due to Pearl Harbor.

Concerning terrorism, of course 9/11 killed less people than illegal immigrants. 9/11 killed less people than die at the hands of minors. 9/11 killed less people than die of lightening strikes. 9/11 killed less people than die by MOST things. Terror is not a huge threat.

The numbers don't explode. If that's the case, why is it that crime remains consistently low with an inflow of illegal immigrants? Even in communities with high number of illegal immigrants, the numbers have either stabilized or dropped.

Let's take Compton as an example. Prior to the late 1990s, it was majority Black. Now it a majority Hispanic city with a high illegal immigrant population. The massive crime increase in Compton started in the 1970s due to a collapse in manufacturing in Southern California. The real estate bubble of the 1980s made housing unaffordable in Los Angeles County. Cities like Moreno Valley, Palmdale, Lancaster, Perris were attractive choices for middle income families. Thus, what was left in Compton was the poorest population. The riots of the 1990s served to continue this out migration. By the late 1990s and 2000s illegal immigrants came to Compton. There has a been a turn around in the region (as compared to other times in its history). Homicides plunge, hope rises in Compton -- latimes.com

Entering in legally currently needs an overhaul. The system is flawed. That's why there are people willing to pay THOUSANDS to enter illegally.

Why don't we ban marriage? Since spousal abuse accounts for 112 deaths a day.

Hispanics constitute 80% of illegal immigrants...currently they are also at the national average in terms of incarceration rates. Also, the interesting thing is that there are MANY conflicting reports concerning raising and even lowering crime rates by illegal immigrants.

However, what I do know is that we are in the 21st century and need to realize that nationalism is not about a flag, language, or institutions...but rather it's about humanity, economics, and progress.
The US is not the world's flophouse. Our legal immigration does need an overhaul, we should allow in only people who have something to offer the US and will not be a burden on society. I am confident the Australians would be willing to advise us on how to set up just such a system. The US has historically done very well during times of limited immigration during the 20th century so there is no innate need to have millions of uneducated, unskilled Third World denizens continually washing up on our shores.
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