U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-23-2008, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Argentina is the whitest country in the world. It would be politically incorrect to have Hispanic as a race because most Hispanics have European and Amerindian ancestors, and in some cases African ancestors. Yet La Raza groups have a strong favor to characterize Mexicans as their own race.
Yet many Mestizo Hispanics tend to be prejudiced against American Indians-------and, vice versa.

The phrase 'cultural differences' comes to mind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-23-2008, 07:46 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,725 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Yet many Mestizo Hispanics tend to be prejudiced against American Indians-------and, vice versa.

The phrase 'cultural differences' comes to mind.
Even then Mestizo culture in Mexico is very different from indigenous people's culture. They eat different food, talk differently e.t.c
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-23-2008, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Even then Mestizo culture in Mexico is very different from indigenous people's culture. They eat different food, talk differently e.t.c
That I believe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-23-2008, 09:11 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Yet many Mestizo Hispanics tend to be prejudiced against American Indians-------and, vice versa.

The phrase 'cultural differences' comes to mind.
Yes, I went to a wedding one time between an Indian from the Midwest USA and a Mexican girl. Very strange, not very friendly between the in-laws.

Both sides were quite displeased with the other. Well -- the Indian side had the same kind of comments I hear others make of the too many attendents, too much money spent and big display made.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-23-2008, 09:17 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
So ignore traditionally discriminated Mexican-Americans because of the TINY rich white minority in Mexico. Yeah, thats really fair. I guess the rest don't count.

After all, everybody got treated great in the past in America except for the African-Americans.
Traditionally discriminated against Mexican Americans? Well at least only include those who actually endured that which means their family roots here would have to go back a number of decades.

It should never include those border hoppers who just arrived yesterday and now want their affirmative action for things that never took place as far as their ancestors. Remember at one time the "hispanic" population in the USA was quite small, non-existent in most USA states.

In fact, if you removed all the recently arrived illegals and many legals, including that big flood that arrived in the late 1980's to claim their amnesty, "hispanics" are not likely doing any worse than "whites". Since many "hispanics" are white and black, they have it no better or worse than other whites and blacks, of course those too ignorant to learn the common language of this nation will fall behind but that's their own lack of desire to adapt and learn that holds them back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-23-2008, 09:23 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
AMC, this is one point on which we strongly disagree. My proposed ideas for affirmative action (in order of my preference) are to:

a) offer it to people of low-income backgrounds, regardless of race or ethnicity

b) abolish it completely

c) offer it to ONLY African-Americans, but since that would be hard to enforce, in practice it would have to be offered to all black people.

It would not be offered to the Jews, the Irish, the Italians, the "brown" Mexicans, or the Japanese - all of which have been the recipients of discrimination in this country over the last 100 years. This is not to say that I don't recognize that there has been discrimination - I do recognize that - it's just that at some point you have to draw the line at who receives affirmative action and I believe that it is intended primarily: 1) for the economically disadvantaged (which corresponds with race) and 2) for African-Americans.

Note: a full 46% of Hispanics in the United States self identify as "white." That certainly isn't a tiny minority; in fact, it is a plurality because the next highest response was "other" (mainly chosen by mestizo Mexicans and Mexican-Americans) and the third highest response was "black."

I've met educated African immigrants -- and educated very literate immigrants from countries like Barbados who certainly don't need affirmative action.

I guess where would you draw the line -- someone from Africa might have ancestors that were slave masters or slave traders and not a single slave in their ancestry. Someone from Jamaica or Barbados likely does but recently immigrated here.

But -- whether or not someone agrees with affirmative action for blacks to make up for past institutionalized racism, and especially slavery, it certainly should not apply to non-slave immigrants who just stepped foot in USA soil or who have arrived post 1960's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-23-2008, 09:41 PM
 
20 posts, read 46,597 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes -- how special it is to be a very wealthy blue-eyed blond Latino aristocrat and still be able to receive free college and all the affirmative action handouts.

La Raza of course promotes this, because how great it is to come from a privileged background, get into the USA and benefit by quotas because a region of the USA that once consisted of only black and white Americans somehow doesn't have enough "hispanic" bank presidents or school administrators. No matter that there was never any historic discrimination against hispanics, they believe they are entitled to show up and be given quotas to get them even immediately.

At least black Americans have a logical reason for affirmative action and quotas. There really was a history of slavery and institutionalized racism that their ancestors endured.
But what about the Latinos that are not white? That are mestizo, mulatto, Native American or black? I understand the confusion surrounding white Latinos being able to claim title to a minority population, but what about the rest who actually are racial minorities in this country?

I would also beg to differ with you that there has not been institutionalized discrimination against Hispanics in this country. Look at lynchings and poll tax laws in the Southwest following the Mexican-American war, or how among other reasons, statehood for New Mexico was delayed by decades because of the "brown population."

Latinos come in all races, Native American, black, white, Asian, and all of the above. Perhaps there should be a greater differentiation between White Latinos and Latinos of color, but to pretend that entire Latino community is white and trying to get a leg up by claiming so is a bit far stretched.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-23-2008, 10:03 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverbeast View Post
But what about the Latinos that are not white? That are mestizo, mulatto, Native American or black? I understand the confusion surrounding white Latinos being able to claim title to a minority population, but what about the rest who actually are racial minorities in this country?

I would also beg to differ with you that there has not been institutionalized discrimination against Hispanics in this country. Look at lynchings and poll tax laws in the Southwest following the Mexican-American war, or how among other reasons, statehood for New Mexico was delayed by decades because of the "brown population."

Latinos come in all races, Native American, black, white, Asian, and all of the above. Perhaps there should be a greater differentiation between White Latinos and Latinos of color, but to pretend that entire Latino community is white and trying to get a leg up by claiming so is a bit far stretched.
If there was discrimination against "hispanics", it was only against the "hispanics" who were here at that time -- which of course was a very tiny portion since there were not many hispanics here before the 1960s.

My point is -- whatever discrimination there might have been against American hispanics living here at that time does not justify affirmative action and all the many "minority" handouts being given to those who just stepped over the border.

And so what if a Mexican is brown. One of our most successful immigrant groupis from India and they tend to have good tans, better thans than most Mexicans. The difference though is that they don't refuse to learn English, they don't drop out of middle school, they don't try to use their skin shade as an excuse for everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-23-2008, 10:07 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Also I don't care what color a "hispanic" immigrant is -- they can be completely black, from the Dominican Republic for example, and there is no reason for them to be given affirmative action of any kind. They did not suffer institutionalized racism like the black Americans' ancestors did -- if what happened to your ancestors here justifies special privileges, obviously that should mean all immigrants, white, black, purple should not get anything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-23-2008, 10:09 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,273,527 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Regardless of how they see themselves, something I learned from you was the different experiences among Latino groups. You told me some things that I wasn't aware of in Miami and places where there are lots of Cubans.

But I know about Mexican-Americans in California. I remember you expressing some disbelief at the Latino community having a drug or poverty problem, and I'm guessing that is a big difference between here and there.

I think it's safe to say that the majority of people living in poverty in places like California will be Latino. And its been like that a long time. Affirmative Action only being applied to Black people isn't going to do much in cities like Los Angeles where there are hardly any Black people.
AMC, you make a valid point. However, remember that if I had things my way, I would offer affirmative action to people of low-income backgrounds, regardless of race or ethnicity.

Since I assume that you're talking about economically disadvantaged Latinos, they too would be covered in my proposed affirmative action plan. It doesn't have to do with being black or brown, it has to do with being from a low-income background and this will include people of all races and ethnicites.

I just don't think it's fair that my college buddy from Rancho Palos Verdes (a rich suburb on the Pacific Ocean south of LA for people who aren't familiar with the name) be eligible for affirmative action just because he is 1/8 of Amerindian descent (all of his relatives are white except for one great grandparent, apparently) and therefore part of a "minority" group which has in the past received discrimination in California. For all practical purposes, his family members in Mexico probably were at the giving end of the discrimination more than they were at the receiving end.

Do you disagree? I suppose you might in theory, but in practice the people about whom you're worried (Latinos in poor neighborhood) would be covered by my proposed affirmative action plan.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top