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Old 07-24-2008, 08:24 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,922 posts, read 7,623,051 times
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There are more Illegals getting in From Mexico than along the rest of the American borders put together.
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:44 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,736,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjames3000 View Post
I think this post is extremely important and I commend you for your boldness miamiman.
Bravo miamiman and jimjames3000, a rational discussion on Immigration
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:55 PM
 
2,344 posts, read 3,802,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjames3000 View Post
As an American, I personally feel that the anti-immigrant wave that is sweeping the country is both unfair and immoral. Now before I catch some heat and be labeled a pro-illegal, there are some observations I’d like to share with everyone:

1. Anti-immigrant proponents say “another amnesty would not be good for America”. They fail to explain why and how……
2. If you look at a lot of the “anti-illegal” comments and the people who post them, they are just one-liners, filled with a loathsome dislike for “illegals”. Note the statements are one-liners and lack intelligent debate.
3. On the economy, it's not illegals who are to blame. Illegals are not running the Federal Reserve and the US Chamber of Commerce (nor the banking industry)
4. There are anywhere between 10 to 25 million illegals in the country. This number is not deportable and they cannot even fit in the current justice system facilities (jails) that we have. So the people baying for mass deportations are deluded. One report states that it would take 60,000 flights flying daily to ship everyone back home or cost hundreds of billions of dollars to investigate, arrest, incarcerate, process and ship ALL the illegals.
5. That illegals are “taking jobs” from Americans is not entirely accurate. The top of the crème American jobs are not for the unskilled. They require college degrees and above to fill and therefore are still filled by Americans.
6. E-verify-If implemented tomorrow, over 10 million people will suddenly be without jobs and no way to feed their families or survive. Crime would skyrocket and social upheaval would be rampant. I don’t know of a society that can remain stable with 10 million or more people who suddenly are without a livelihood. Cities like San Antonio, Miami, Houston and LA would experience social upheavals not unlike the LA riots. Washington and the general US public also cannot tolerate a 10%+ national unemployment rate.
7. The US economy is fanned almost 100% by consumerism. That means it depends entirely on you and me's shopping especially for luxuries. The removal of the 10 million plus purchasing power from the economy would wreak havoc and wildly suppress the consumer confidence index.
8. The current housing market crisis-This was caused by over-construction and traditionally high credit requirements. To get rid of excess inventory, the lenders decided to depress the credit requirements and started lending to people with sub-prime credit who eventually defaulted causing the system to crash. The banking industry is also reeling because of the same thing. Legalizing immigrants would actually jumpstart the housing market because many immigrants who are now living underground would come into the economic mainstream (not to mention that they are already in the social mainstream)
9. The US economy’s 3-4% annual growth still generates thousands of “odd jobs” which Americans do not want and will not do (that is why over 90% of all illegals have jobs!)

I could go on……but lets look at the proposed solutions

1. Not all immigrants are the same. Not all are illiterate welfare pushers. Many have families, college degrees, jobs and are daily contributors to the US economy. These are ALREADY integrated in the economy. Legalizing them would not harm the US in anyway.
2. There are immigrants who have been here for too long and have no ties to their home countries.
3 .The argument that an amnesty would cause the immigrants to invite their relatives living in their home countries is not true. A recent poll shows that most immigrants are opposed to this.
4. Legalizing immigrants would actually keep jobs in America because many of them would start businesses, contribute to consumer spending on big ticket items and boost the economy.
5.We can simply institute a fine for violating the law and the millions raised would be used to fund technological advancements are the border, better employer verification and next generation ID cards.

The "hate" we're witnessing has been fueled by recent reports and publications showing that by the year 2050, indigenous whites will not be the majority. This is simply because their birthrate is lower as opposed to that of today's minorities.
Nice try by throwing "immigrant" in there.

But you know as well as every other illegal lover that people are against ILLEGALS.

Do you know the difference between someone who legally immigrated to this country and someone who illegally did?
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,895,723 times
Reputation: 6517
Don't know where the op gets the isea its about anti-immigration. At least not from this forum. The great majority who post are simply anti-illegal immigration. Its a huge difference. Sort of like bank withdrawl and bank robbery. Both take money from the bank. The difference is one is the takers money to begin with and the other is stolen.
Illegals steal their way into our country. They force honest legal citizens from their jobs. Many don't pay taxes, and contribute very little to our economy prefering to send it back to their native land instead. Many steal Identities and ruin legal citizens lives. Many come here and commit violent crimes. There really is no such thing as an Honest hard working illegal.
Hard working perhaps. Honest never. They cheated and they stole their way in.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Major Metro
1,083 posts, read 2,060,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
Why not just open the borders and allow any one from anywhere to come into America.
Lets be clear about what the radical pro-illegals don't care about:
1) They don't have a concern about the borders or sovereignty.
2) They don't think there's an issue with criminality or terrorism. Therefore they are fine with anyone coming to the U.S. (terrorists, drug lords, etc. need to eat too).
3) The do not want expectations for minimal levels of assimilation like learning basic English. That's just racists.
4) They don't believe that 50 million or 100 million or even a trillion people entering the country illegally will have any negative impact on the country's resources (didn't you know natural resources are unlimited!), job displacement, crime, health care systems, schools, etc.
5) They don't believe laws should be taken so literally. They are fine with the thought of people choosing which laws to follow.

I wonder if we can get as many sympathizers to support not paying taxes. I'm even fine with it being called pro-no tax payers. We're disenfranchised too! Waaaaaaaaaaah.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:22 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,794,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
Why not just open the borders and allow any one from anywhere to come into America. That is what is happening now with the mexican Border. Why call it America... Call it everywhere land. America should have borders and only allow in who they see fit to live in America. Not just every waste of space that wants a slice of America.
No one is saying the border shouldn't be secured. Find me one quote of one so called "pro-illegal" suggesting that the border be thrown wide open!
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:30 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,794,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prim2007 View Post
Lets be clear about what the radical pro-illegals don't care about:
1) They don't have a concern about the borders or sovereignty.
2) They don't think there's and issue with criminality or terroism. Therefore they are fine with anyone coming to the U.S. (terrorists, drug lords, etc. need to eat too).
3) The do not want expectations for minimal levels of assimilation like learning basic English. That's just racists.
4) They don't believe that 50 million or 100 million or even a trillion people entering the country illegally will have any negative impact on the country's resources (didn't you know natural resources are unlimited!), job displacement, crime, health care systems, schools, etc.
5) They don't believe laws should be taken so literally. They are fine with the thought of people choosing which laws to follow.

I wonder if we can get as many sympathizers to support not paying taxes. I'm even fine with it being called pro-no tax payers. We're disenfranchised too! Waaaaaaaaaaah.
!) What so called "pro-llegal" on here advocates for open borders? I have seen NONE so far. We do care about this nation and have no problem with the border being secured.

2) No one is fine with terrorist, drug lords, criminal coming in

3) No one is against illegal immigrants learning in english on this board

4)With the rate that the border is being secured now, the numbers you mentioned wouldn't even be able to enter the country illegally. It took a couple of years to even get to this 12 million number.

5) It is true that they have broken laws, but that is why they must face penalties and fines so that they can get into the legal system.

It is typical of the anti-immigrant crowd to portray anyone who doesn't agree with them as unpatriotic. Solutions to solving this problem is not as simple as throw em all out and everything will be fine and dandy.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:34 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,794,644 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman View Post
You have yet to explain to me how you know these problems that are (have) affecting (ed) your friends were caused by people who you are sure are illegal immigrants, or as you describe them "these illegals." Until you can prove to me something different, I can only believe you classify people as being illegal immigrants using superficial criteria. Whenever someone starts classifying groups of people using superficial criteria they are considered to stereotype people, which is often caused by prejudiced or racist thoughts.

I fail to see how politicans are bending backward to cater to illegal immigrants. I have heard some politicians express the difficulty that would be involved with deporting the tens of millions of illegal immigrants in this country. That is not false. We have NEVER even attempted to deport those numbers of people. There are a whole bunch of circumstances that makes make illegal immigration more than a black and white issue. There are some politicians who see that and who are proposing reasonable ideas for the immigration situation. If you think this country is in poor economic shape now, let's deport 15 million people over the next week and see what happens. It wouldn't be pretty.

I realize that illegal immigration is often thought of as a white VS. Hispanic, it's not. I don't really question the fact that illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be addressed. I just question people's motives for being against illegal immigration. A lot of comments on this sub-forum are full of people using the term "illegal" on people who they do not know are illegal immigrants. A lot of people think that non-English speaking Mexicans in the United States are illegal immigrants. Some think that people who live in households with 5 or 6+ people are automatically illegal immigrants. That's where I have a problem. There is NO justification for classifying people's immigration status off of what you think they are. I personally think that one of the reasons that this immigration battle is mainly seen as a white VS. Hispanic issue is because other minority groups know the vehement discrimination and stereotyping they had (have) to face from other groups.
Very good post, but what some so called "anti-illegals" don't know is that, they are part of the problem by opposing the rational and reasonable solutions needed to solve this problem. They are merely mantaining the status quo they always rail about.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Major Metro
1,083 posts, read 2,060,964 times
Reputation: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
!) It is typical of the anti-immigrant crowd to portray anyone who doesn't agree with them as unpatriotic. Solutions to solving this problem is not as simple as throw em all out and everything will be fine and dandy.
The solution to this problem is also not acknowledging that there is a difference between illegal and legal immigrants as if breaking a law has no bearing.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,643,200 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by prim2007 View Post
The solution to this problem is also not acknowledging that there is a difference between illegal and legal immigrants as if breaking a law has no bearing.
That is a favorite tactic here by the (losing) pro illegal side.
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