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Old 07-28-2008, 04:05 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,050 posts, read 21,163,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Most Blacks who live right now have never been slaves. But like Mexicans and other minorities, have been the targets of racism.
Unlike those evil whites aka those who don't fall under a "minority" label - they've never been the target of racism. D'oh!

Newsflash - everyone has experienced discrimination and been the target of racism - it doesn't matter what color your skin, what accent you have - everyone has a story or two to share. What's the point?
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:11 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Discrimination, segregation, lychings, gang problems, drug problems, education problems, incarceration problems are not exclusively Black problems.
.
Here's my take....

DISCRIMINATION....always bad. How relevant is it today? I'm not sure...but I doubt there's much rampant discrimination in today's society. I live and interact among MANY people (I even take a weekly turn at a '5-race car pool' of kids) and I seldom hear ANYONE complain about their being discriminated against..

SEGREGATION....bad, if it's forced upon someone. Yet remarkably, there's STILL some discrimination going on...90% of it, in my opinion, because that's what people WANT, for themselves. Does that still make it 'bad'?..

LYNCHINGS...Can't speak too well on this. There are very few lynchings in my neighborhood these days. If there ever WAS one, that would definitely be bad...but so far, no reports....

GANG PROBLEMS....Nasty situation. Sounds to me like it's mostly happening because people choose to join gangs. I'm not sure how to 'make' them stop doing this. If they think gangs are 'cool', what's the chance I'll be able to change their minds?

DRUG PROBLEMS...Bad, for sure. Happened in my own family (which is why I'm the adoptive father of my own 3 grandchildren)...but whose 'fault' is it? I'd say MOST of the fault lies in those who choose to use drugs. Nowadays, nobody can say they 'didn't know better'..can they?

EDUCATION PROBLEMS...Tough one. Some people blame 'lack of funding'...perhaps. But I'd say it's a culture of disrespect for the educational process, laziness, lack of parental support, or simple lack of attention. No amount of money can "make" students want to learn....and no amount of poverty or difficulty can KEEP those from learning, who really want to. Let's face it..algebra, calculus, geometry, physics, and chemistry aren't "cool"...they're just things we need to learn. We can't make EVERYTHING exciting...sometimes, education is just plain hard work.

INCARCERATION PROBLEMS....Some incarceration is no doubt due to racism and prejudice....prejudiced 'cops', prejudiced judges, prejudiced juries. I continue to believe, however, that the VAST majority of those who sit in prison are there because they committed a crime. The answer? "If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime". Don't want to sound trite here, but that's pretty good advice....and no, poverty does NOT cause crime...There are FAR too many honest poor people, and FAR too many wealthy 'crooks' to believe in THAT tired old piece of 'BS'.

That's the way I look at many of the problems you mention. Your view will obviously differ from mine.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:23 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,995,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Here's my take....

DISCRIMINATION....always bad. How relevant is it today? I'm not sure...but I doubt there's much rampant discrimination in today's society. I live and interact among MANY people (I even take a weekly turn at a '5-race car pool' of kids) and I seldom hear ANYONE complain about their being discriminated against..

SEGREGATION....bad, if it's forced upon someone. Yet remarkably, there's STILL some discrimination going on...90% of it, in my opinion, because that's what people WANT, for themselves. Does that still make it 'bad'?..

LYNCHINGS...Can't speak too well on this. There are very few lynchings in my neighborhood these days. If there ever WAS one, that would definitely be bad...but so far, no reports....

GANG PROBLEMS....Nasty situation. Sounds to me like it's mostly happening because people choose to join gangs. I'm not sure how to 'make' them stop doing this. If they think gangs are 'cool', what's the chance I'll be able to change their minds?

DRUG PROBLEMS...Bad, for sure. Happened in my own family (which is why I'm the adoptive father of my own 3 grandchildren)...but whose 'fault' is it? I'd say MOST of the fault lies in those who choose to use drugs. Nowadays, nobody can say they 'didn't know better'..can they?

EDUCATION PROBLEMS...Tough one. Some people blame 'lack of funding'...perhaps. But I'd say it's a culture of disrespect for the educational process, laziness, lack of parental support, or simple lack of attention. No amount of money can "make" students want to learn....and no amount of poverty or difficulty can KEEP those from learning, who really want to. Let's face it..algebra, calculus, geometry, physics, and chemistry aren't "cool"...they're just things we need to learn. We can't make EVERYTHING exciting...sometimes, education is just plain hard work.

INCARCERATION PROBLEMS....Some incarceration is no doubt due to racism and prejudice....prejudiced 'cops', prejudiced judges, prejudiced juries. I continue to believe, however, that the VAST majority of those who sit in prison are there because they committed a crime. The answer? "If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime". Don't want to sound trite here, but that's pretty good advice....and no, poverty does NOT cause crime...There are FAR too many honest poor people, and FAR too many wealthy 'crooks' to believe in THAT tired old piece of 'BS'.

That's the way I look at many of the problems you mention. Your view will obviously differ from mine.

You strike me as the "ill see it when i believe it" type of guy. That's all right.

Its a weird phenomenon how problems like those mentioned are more rampant in poor neighborhoods.
Its also really weird how the majority of people in those poor neighborhoods are minority.
Its also peculiar how a much higher percentage of those minorities in poor neighborhoods are choosing to commit crimes and choosing to end up in prison.
Then theres the mystery of white people having those problems at a MUCH lower rate than the minorities.
. They must be superior humans.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:27 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,791,262 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Unlike those evil whites aka those who don't fall under a "minority" label - they've never been the target of racism. D'oh!

Newsflash - everyone has experienced discrimination and been the target of racism - it doesn't matter what color your skin, what accent you have - everyone has a story or two to share. What's the point?
Who has ever called whites "evil" on this board?
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:48 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
You strike me as the "ill see it when i believe it" type of guy. That's all right.

Its a weird phenomenon how problems like those mentioned are more rampant in poor neighborhoods.
Its also really weird how the majority of people in those poor neighborhoods are minority.
Its also peculiar how a much higher percentage of those minorities in poor neighborhoods are choosing to commit crimes and choosing to end up in prison.
Then theres the mystery of white people having those problems at a MUCH lower rate than the minorities.
. They must be superior humans.
I may be a bit of a "see it to believe it" guy...But for a Catholic, that wouldn't work too well.(We HAVE to believe a lot of stuff we can't see) What I am MOSTLY, is a "there's trouble, and then there's REAL trouble" kind of guy. I 'came of age' during the Viet Nam years. I did military service, I distinctly remember MLK, the civil rights struggle...even the 'Central High School' debacle in Little Rock, Arkansas. I've seen TRUE discrimination, and TRUE problems faced by people...and I've seen other problems that people 'thought' they had...or discrimination that people 'thought' might be in others' minds.....I've seen the very worst of racism, and I've seen 'the race card' played in situations that were just plain silly. I've learned to 'pick and choose' my causes.

I've been to many countries (Navy plus Merchant Marine service) and seen societies where 'ethnicity' was everything. It was interesting, but I had no desire to ever live like that.(I still don't). I've been to places that never HAD the opportunities this country is so eager to 'throw away'. We're worried about someone 'not liking our accent'...but I've seen places where people are happy to EAT semi-regularly. You quickly see who's got 'problems' and who has 'hurt feelings'.


I've seen illegal immigrants happy to be here, glad to be out of Mexico, and accepted by society. I've lived for years among people who arrived from Mexico in former times, who had absolutely NO illusions about 'where they wanted to be' (hint: it was HERE).

I've also been married for decades to someone identical in race to most illegals. I've seen discrimination and racism....and I've seen silly, bad-mannered redneck people whose opinion means nothing to me, and who are one of our biggest sources of private 'laughs'. I've learned to 'pick my battles'.

I've also seen America 'wilt' under a barrage of nonsense regarding illegal immigration, to the point it's just about impossible to discuss it anymore, so great is the 'guilt' factor. My wife can only shake her head in wonder at this 'white guilt'....glad she doesn't share it. And I agree with her.

I guess we're just of two different generations. I just have a longer perspective than you do.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Slavery was over a century ago.

Discrimination, segregation, lychings, gang problems, drug problems, education problems, incarceration problems are not exclusively Black problems.

Blacks have traditionally been the lowest on the totem pole in this country, been the most hated and mistreated.

But Next in line is the Mexican-Americans/Mexicans as well as the Native Americans, but theres not too many of those left anymore, huh?

For so many similar problems in RECENT history, as in the last 60 years or so, Latino issues are sure being dismissed pretty easily. Some people even refuse to acknowledge the problems have existed/exist!


Theres a huge double standard. If Latinos claim any problems, they are "using the race card", "whining", "trying to get special attention".

If a Black person claims any problems, watch all the fake sympathy pour out.



I like how when people ask, "well, what problems have Mexican-Americans been through in this country?"
No matter what one says, the response will always be either a.) that was a long time ago! You are dwelling on a past you werent alive for, haven't experience.
or b.) thats in your culture, and your own fault.

I would love to see the same people give the same answer a.) to a Black person regarding slavery.
Or give the same answer b.) to a Black person regarding Black problems in the United States.

They'd be insane to downplay that kind of history. But its very easy to downplay any problems Latinos have encountered in this country.

That kind of attitude is why people see a Mexican getting killed by a white mob as an act of frustration and anger of the common American man, frustration from the misery of living under illegal immigrant control in this country, instead of what it was: a lynching.
It is not necessary for you to inject black people into every discussion when trying to make a point about Mexicans and discrimination, and the terrible treatment illegal Mexicans are experiencing in this country. Your incessant involvement of black people in your discussions is unnecessary and irrelevant, and adds nothing to this debate.

Bottom line....fight your own battles, with your own weapons; and stop pulling on the coattails of blacks. Our struggles are not now, nor have they ever been the same.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:52 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,791,262 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It is not necessary for you to inject black people into every discussion when trying to make a point about Mexicans and discrimination, and the terrible treatment illegal Mexicans are experiencing in this country. Your incessant involvement of black people in your discussions is unnecessary and irrelevant, and adds nothing to this debate.

Bottom line....fight your own battles, with your own weapons; and stop pulling on the coattails of blacks. Our struggles are not now, nor have they ever been the same.
Who made you the Jesse Jackson of this board?

LOL, i've noticed you like laying out the terms of the debate for people.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Who made you the Jesse Jackson of this board?

LOL, i've noticed you like laying out the terms of the debate for people.
I will ignore your comparison between me and Jesse "The Pimp" Jackson, and consider it nothing more than prepubescent chatter.

If you take what I think of your opinion of me, and add 53 cents, you will have exactly the correct amount to buy a Washington Post newspaper.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:03 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Then theres the mystery of white people having those problems at a MUCH lower rate than the minorities.
. They must be superior humans.
Not a mystery at all. There's no scientific evidence of any 'superior humans'..and if there WAS, it would probably turn out to be Asians, not whites....Asians seem to be on the highest 'track to success' as far as respect for education, staying out of trouble, etc.

But you and I know there's REALLY no 'superior humans', don't we? What there are, is humans who make the effort and exert the self-discipline needed to 'stay on the straight and narrow' and to succeed....even if it means spending time IN the library, and OFF the skateboard.(shudder)

Maybe they just 'got a good set of parents'....maybe they're 'just lucky'. Maybe (please don't be shocked)...their culture contains a certain capacity for "SHAME", and maybe this means that 'acting bad' and 'living sloppy' brings one serious peer-disapproval...and maybe people NEED this type of shame in their lives. (Don't quote me on that) But I suspect most of it is plain focus and hard work.
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Not a mystery at all. There's no scientific evidence of any 'superior humans'..and if there WAS, it would probably turn out to be Asians, not whites....Asians seem to be on the highest 'track to success' as far as respect for education, staying out of trouble, etc.

But you and I know there's REALLY no 'superior humans', don't we? What there are, is humans who make the effort and exert the self-discipline needed to 'stay on the straight and narrow' and to succeed....even if it means spending time IN the library, and OFF the skateboard.(shudder)

Maybe they just 'got a good set of parents'....maybe they're 'just lucky'. Maybe (please don't be shocked)...their culture contains a certain capacity for "SHAME", and maybe this means that 'acting bad' and 'living sloppy' brings one serious peer-disapproval...and maybe people NEED this type of shame in their lives. (Don't quote me on that) But I suspect most of it is plain focus and hard work.
Thank you!
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