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Old 07-27-2008, 08:44 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,941,319 times
Reputation: 22174

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
You know, as someone else has said, there wasnt any way of the killers knowing that Ramirez was an illegal immigrant.
He was pretty much killed for being Mexican.

That doesn't bother you, you being of Mexican descent and all?

Why are you trying so hard to make the victim guilty?
And this coming from he who justified the murder of Jamiel Shaw?

Why didn't you admit that Shaw's killer, an illegal alien, killed him because he was black and nothing more. You tried to smear the name of Jamiel Shaw, say he played a role in his murder.
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,181,048 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
You know, as someone else has said, there wasnt any way of the killers knowing that Ramirez was an illegal immigrant.
He was pretty much killed for being Mexican.

That doesn't bother you, you being of Mexican descent and all?

Why are you trying so hard to make the victim guilty?
I'm not trying to do anything. The man was in our country illegally, along with 20 million of his compadres, and anyone that thinks 20 million uninvited interlopers is not going to cause problems is refusing to use the brains God gave them.

Yes, the man was beaten, to death, because he was a Mexican. This upsets me GREATLY, because that means that Mexican-Americans are at risk now. Many people, myself included, have said that the continued abuse of our border would lead to violence. It seems we were right.

Sometimes it SUCKS being right...
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:53 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,804,252 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And this coming from he who justified the murder of Jamiel Shaw?

Why didn't you admit that Shaw's killer, an illegal alien, killed him because he was black and nothing more. You tried to smear the name of Jamiel Shaw, say he played a role in his murder.
I don't think anyone tried to justify Shaw's murder, all the evidence pointed to the fact that he was killed because the killer thought he was a gang member not because he was black. At least AMC had evidence and articles to back up what he was saying but you don't have anything to back up what you are saying. You just look silly carrying on with this argument.
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:46 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,941,319 times
Reputation: 22174
At any rate, just like the killer of poor American Jamiel Shaw was arrested, the killers of this illegal have been arrested. To try to use this case as a way to justify your open borders agenda is the worst kind of exploitation of a death.

Illegals need to return home to their own countries, would-be immigrants must abide by the laws of this nation.

A lot more Mexicans are running over the border trying to escape violence from other Mexicans in their own country because they don't fear Americans at all. Look at the huge spike in asylum requests from Mexico, obviously they know no one is being killed here simply for being a Mexican citizen.
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:19 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,649,429 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
At any rate, just like the killer of poor American Jamiel Shaw was arrested, the killers of this illegal have been arrested. To try to use this case as a way to justify your open borders agenda is the worst kind of exploitation of a death.

Illegals need to return home to their own countries, would-be immigrants must abide by the laws of this nation.

A lot more Mexicans are running over the border trying to escape violence from other Mexicans in their own country because they don't fear Americans at all. Look at the huge spike in asylum requests from Mexico, obviously they know no one is being killed here simply for being a Mexican citizen.
Well said. It's the very cheapest sort of 'shot', to attempt (as some are now doing), to make a connection between ANYONE who shows concern over the many obvious ill effects of uncontrolled illegal immigration, and the grisly murder mentioned on this thread. It's just terribly unfair, inappropriate, and 'silly' to try to push the idea that 'anyone who objects to the continued entry into the US by illegals, is the same kind of person who'd stand by while someone was beaten to death'.

The sheer nonsense of such a comparison makes any further comment unneccesary. That type of reasoning 'speaks for itself'.

Why this incident even APPEARS in a forum about immigration is, in itself, questionable. In my opinion, it is even less relevant than the many 'illegal molests child'-type stories that appear so often. Illegal imigration... IN ITSELF... is a huge, expensive problem, well worth dealing with in its own right. All the 'crime stories' only confuse the main issue. In the same way, the anger and frustration felt by Americans toward this problem are well worth discussing, aside from any such aberrations as the murder in Pennsylvania. That's a 'side issue'. The MAIN issue is illegal immigration. It's illegal, it's expensive, and its getting out of hand. It's not a matter of racism, it's not an issue of 'xenophobia', and it's NOT something America should feel "guilty" about.....and it's going to have to be addressed, or things are going to get much worse....
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,956,936 times
Reputation: 6517
Mac that was 1 great post.
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,711,099 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
I'm not trying to do anything. The man was in our country illegally, along with 20 million of his compadres, and anyone that thinks 20 million uninvited interlopers is not going to cause problems is refusing to use the brains God gave them.

Yes, the man was beaten, to death, because he was a Mexican. This upsets me GREATLY, because that means that Mexican-Americans are at risk now. Many people, myself included, have said that the continued abuse of our border would lead to violence. It seems we were right.

Sometimes it SUCKS being right...
Not just stereotypical 'brown' Mexican Americans at risk either.

As I have opined on in the past and Benicar concurs: any innocent person who looks even a bit stereotypically 'Latino' may be at risk for verbal abuse or worse. We are talking about Indians (both American and East), Mulattoes, Arabs-------hell, pretty much any person who is neither lily white nor dark brown may be in danger.
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,854,828 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
At any rate, just like the killer of poor American Jamiel Shaw was arrested, the killers of this illegal have been arrested. To try to use this case as a way to justify your open borders agenda is the worst kind of exploitation of a death.

Illegals need to return home to their own countries, would-be immigrants must abide by the laws of this nation.

A lot more Mexicans are running over the border trying to escape violence from other Mexicans in their own country because they don't fear Americans at all. Look at the huge spike in asylum requests from Mexico, obviously they know no one is being killed here simply for being a Mexican citizen.
How true! Not many would relish the thought of jumping out of the skillet into the fire. If we had "open season" on Mexicans in this country, I seriously doubt many Mexicans would choose to come here. However, as others have stated……if we don’t resolve this problem soon, these tragedies will no longer be the exception, and countless innocent people will be harmed or killed -- all for the sake of cheap illegal labor.
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,711,099 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
How true! Not many would relish the thought of jumping out of the skillet into the fire. If we had "open season" on Mexicans in this country, I seriously doubt many Mexicans would choose to come here. However, as others have stated……if we don’t resolve this problem soon, these tragedies will no longer be the exception, and countless innocent people will be harmed or killed -- all for the sake of cheap illegal labor.
That is a damning indictment of Mexico------that some people who would have good cases as political refugees are willing to spend time in a 'Gringo' detention center here in the USA after turning themselves in to the nearest US police officer/Border Patrol agent.
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:52 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,009,876 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Well said. It's the very cheapest sort of 'shot', to attempt (as some are now doing), to make a connection between ANYONE who shows concern over the many obvious ill effects of uncontrolled illegal immigration, and the grisly murder mentioned on this thread. It's just terribly unfair, inappropriate, and 'silly' to try to push the idea that 'anyone who objects to the continued entry into the US by illegals, is the same kind of person who'd stand by while someone was beaten to death'.

The sheer nonsense of such a comparison makes any further comment unneccesary. That type of reasoning 'speaks for itself'.

Why this incident even APPEARS in a forum about immigration is, in itself, questionable. In my opinion, it is even less relevant than the many 'illegal molests child'-type stories that appear so often. Illegal imigration... IN ITSELF... is a huge, expensive problem, well worth dealing with in its own right. All the 'crime stories' only confuse the main issue. In the same way, the anger and frustration felt by Americans toward this problem are well worth discussing, aside from any such aberrations as the murder in Pennsylvania. That's a 'side issue'. The MAIN issue is illegal immigration. It's illegal, it's expensive, and its getting out of hand. It's not a matter of racism, it's not an issue of 'xenophobia', and it's NOT something America should feel "guilty" about.....and it's going to have to be addressed, or things are going to get much worse....

While not all "anti-illegals" are to be compared to these killers, this incident is far from irrelevant.

We need to put things in perspective. Theres quite a few people on this forum who have a lot of actual HATE.

That same hate, magnified a few times led up to this kind of incident.

How many people are so into this debate over spite, rather than what is actually going on? Over the principle of it?

This article needs to be spread around ,these punks made an example of. To send a message that this kind of crap will NOT be tolerated, whether the victims are illegals or not. Life is life.
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