U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-01-2008, 12:46 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,996,951 times
Reputation: 332

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
It's really not much of an assumption here in Phoenix, there's so many illegals here. I work with them on a daily basis, and on jobsites the percentages are overwhelmingly high. Actually, it's not much of an assumption ANYWHERE in the US, we both know there's a lot more than 12 million.

As for my 'blood' and 'heritage', you illustrate my point PERFECTLY. To you, blood and heritage are paramount to your identity. You've been taught that you're Mexican FIRST, then American, as long as the American part doesn't get in the way of being Mexican. I was raised entirely opposite, and I thank God that I was. Maybe it was because I WASN'T raised in the barrio, that my family was middle-class, that I don't share the same kind of outlook that you have, I don't know.

I spoke Spanish when I was a child, but when I started school I was told to stop, that English was the ONLY language that I should speak. Consequently, I retain very little ability to converse in that language. Was it right? I don't know, times were different back in the 60's.

I guess there's a lot of things I don't know, but one thing I do know is that choosing ethnicity over citizenship is a surefire way to create even MORE animosity towards Hispanics, and the result of that will be catastrophic for ALL of us.
Thats where youre wrong. No matter how American you try to act, the negative stereotypes of Hispanics will STILL be there.
Most of us can be American, with no hint of ethnicity, but anything good about us will be attributed our American-ness.
The Mexicans will still be looked down on as having undesireable traits.

I choose to be identified as Mexican-American, Latino, Hispanic, whatever to help give a positive image of who we really are.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-01-2008, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,996 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Thats where youre wrong. No matter how American you try to act, the negative stereotypes of Hispanics will STILL be there.
Most of us can be American, with no hint of ethnicity, but anything good about us will be attributed our American-ness.
The Mexicans will still be looked down on as having undesireable traits.

I choose to be identified as Mexican-American, Latino, Hispanic, whatever to help give a positive image of who we really are.
I think this is where we differ. I don't have to TRY to act American, I AM American. The Hispanic heritage I've inherited includes hard work, love of family, patriotism (even when it's HARD), self-respect, respect for others, love of God, et cetera. These are the values that have been instilled in me for a half-century, and those around me, regardless of THEIR ethnicity, recognize it.

When I've been profiled or subjected to negative stereotypes I find the fastest way to get over it is to consider the source, and pray for the person doing it. I've never felt the need to get adversarial or defensive with those that don't know me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2008, 01:07 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,996,951 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
I think this is where we differ. I don't have to TRY to act American, I AM American. The Hispanic heritage I've inherited includes hard work, love of family, patriotism (even when it's HARD), self-respect, respect for others, love of God, et cetera. These are the values that have been instilled in me for a half-century, and those around me, regardless of THEIR ethnicity, recognize it.

When I've been profiled or subjected to negative stereotypes I find the fastest way to get over it is to consider the source, and pray for the person doing it. I've never felt the need to get adversarial or defensive with those that don't know me.
See, the thing is, we're all American. Some people feel like they have to go out of their way to prove it. I'm not one of those people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2008, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,996 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
See, the thing is, we're all American. Some people feel like they have to go out of their way to prove it. I'm not one of those people.
I don't go out of my way to prove anything, I live my life by the values I was taught. We are ALL responsible for behaving in the BEST traditions of America.

It ain't perfect, but it's WAY THE HELL ahead of whatever's in 2nd place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2008, 01:39 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,276,533 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
Even Jose Feliciano can see that!!
LOL you just made me laugh out loud
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2008, 01:45 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,276,533 times
Reputation: 1675
I'm going to have to "side" was GuyPinestra on this one. I don't doubt that he is of Hispanic heritage and I think that it is his choice - and his choice alone - to identify with being American over being Hispanic. If he doesn't "feel" Hispanic, why should he have some kind of extra sympathy for Hispanic people (including illegal aliens) that non-Hispanic people are presumed not to have? These assumptions about how Hispanics are supposed to think, feel, and act regarding illegal immigration make people from BOTH sides of the debate look bad and I can't endorse the commonplace view of either camp on this matter. I really feel that being of Hispanic heritage and your views on illegal immigration should not be connected. Let logic, reason, wisdom, and compassion dictate how you come down on the issue, not what your ethnicity is or is perceived to be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2008, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,996 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I'm going to have to "side" was GuyPinestra on this one. I don't doubt that he is of Hispanic heritage and I think that it is his choice - and his choice alone - to identify with being American over being Hispanic. If he doesn't "feel" Hispanic, why should he have some kind of extra sympathy for Hispanic people (including illegal aliens) that non-Hispanic people are presumed not to have? These assumptions about how Hispanics are supposed to think, feel, and act regarding illegal immigration make people from BOTH sides of the debate look bad and I can't endorse the commonplace view of either camp on this matter. I really feel that being of Hispanic heritage and your views on illegal immigration should not be connected. Let logic, reason, wisdom, and compassion dictate how you come down on the issue, not what your ethnicity is or is perceived to be.
I tried to rep you for this post, but I need to 'spread the love' some more.

Thank you for understanding.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2008, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I'm going to have to "side" was GuyPinestra on this one. I don't doubt that he is of Hispanic heritage and I think that it is his choice - and his choice alone - to identify with being American over being Hispanic. If he doesn't "feel" Hispanic, why should he have some kind of extra sympathy for Hispanic people (including illegal aliens) that non-Hispanic people are presumed not to have? These assumptions about how Hispanics are supposed to think, feel, and act regarding illegal immigration make people from BOTH sides of the debate look bad and I can't endorse the commonplace view of either camp on this matter. I really feel that being of Hispanic heritage and your views on illegal immigration should not be connected. Let logic, reason, wisdom, and compassion dictate how you come down on the issue, not what your ethnicity is or is perceived to be.
Kudos!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2008, 01:57 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Thats where youre wrong. No matter how American you try to act, the negative stereotypes of Hispanics will STILL be there.
Most of us can be American, with no hint of ethnicity, but anything good about us will be attributed our American-ness.
The Mexicans will still be looked down on as having undesireable traits.
.
Really, amc, I've gotten almost fond of you...and I'm really TRYING to 'get it'. But HONESTLY, look at this post...it's almost as if you're determined NOT to be liked, respected, or accepted....the conditions you put on yourself almost guarantee it. No matter what happens, the negative stereotypes will continue? Really? On WHOSE part?

My wife looks about as 'illegal' as she can look..(she's not...but she looks it). And I can assure you she doesn't feel half the paranoia you seem to feel. I really don't think the picture is quite as 'dark' as you make it out to be....it's as if you see a 'racist behind every rock'.

You'll NEVER be 100% accepted, loved, and 'hugged' by everybody...but that shouldn't matter. Your behavior and your attitude can ensure that you are accepted by MOST people..and that's all any of us can do.

There will ALWAYS be people who dislike Hispanics. There will also be those who hate indoor plumbing, television, and women's rights. So what? The point is, are YOU trying to be 'part of the solution', or 'part of the problem'?....are you more interested in being liked and accepted by most people..or in defying ANYONE to 'cross' you?....

If you look around the world, I think you'll find that America is a pretty benevolent, pretty accepting, pretty understanding society, compared to most. Isn't that why we're all here?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2008, 01:58 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I'm going to have to "side" was GuyPinestra on this one. I don't doubt that he is of Hispanic heritage and I think that it is his choice - and his choice alone - to identify with being American over being Hispanic. If he doesn't "feel" Hispanic, why should he have some kind of extra sympathy for Hispanic people (including illegal aliens) that non-Hispanic people are presumed not to have? These assumptions about how Hispanics are supposed to think, feel, and act regarding illegal immigration make people from BOTH sides of the debate look bad and I can't endorse the commonplace view of either camp on this matter. I really feel that being of Hispanic heritage and your views on illegal immigration should not be connected. Let logic, reason, wisdom, and compassion dictate how you come down on the issue, not what your ethnicity is or is perceived to be.
Thank you. Well-stated....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top