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Old 07-28-2008, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,662,080 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
Here is the skinny on Mara Salvatrucha MS-13 from a fairly reliable site on gangs in general.
Mara Salvatrucha Gang - MS-13 (http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources/profiles/ms13/ - broken link)

We are not the only nation plagued by this gang. They have also become active in Spain where i have family in the National Police force. At first they confined themselves to their own people then it spread to other foreigners from Latin America living in Spain. When it finally hit the Spanish population it didn't take long for the police to crack down on them and the police in Spain as in other European nations real "crack down" with some violent`police tactics that we do not use here. Maybe we should. In any event many have left Spain or gone underground but the Spanish police are so busy with Muslim terrorists they don't have the resources to ferret out MS-13s and members of The Latin Kings. None the less it appears that the tactics used have diminished the presence of the two foreign gangs.
Remember too that on a cultural level it is simply 'unsafe' for New World Latinos (of any race) to 'talk back' to Spaniards in Spain hence in part why MS 13 etc. tend to back down when confronted.

Tough to smart talk the policia when the latter speak Spanish as well
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:32 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,002,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Remember too that on a cultural level it is simply 'unsafe' for New World Latinos (of any race) to 'talk back' to Spaniards in Spain hence in part why MS 13 etc. tend to back down when confronted.

Tough to smart talk the policia when the latter speak Spanish as well
huh?!

How to you know they "tend to back down" because they feel inferior to Spaniards? I'm not saying they don't, just wondering how you know this? I don't know very much about Latino gangs in Europe, dont hear a lot about it, so wondering how you jumped to that conclusion.

And most gangbangers in the U.S. speak English. I dont see them using Spanish to terrorize the authorities here(lots of police officers speak spanish as well).
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,662,080 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
huh?!

How to you know they "tend to back down" because they feel inferior to Spaniards?

And most gangbangers in the U.S. speak English. I dont see them using Spanish to terrorize the authorities here(lots of police officers speak spanish as well).
Check Latin American cultural history........back in the day; the Spanish born people were at the top of the totem pole with criollos (Mexican, Argentine, etc. born White people of Spanish descent) further down and Mestizos ranking lower yet.

On a subconscious level......those attitudes still may come into play in Spain.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:44 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,002,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Check Latin American cultural history........back in the day; the Spanish born people were at the top of the totem pole with criollos (Mexican, Argentine, etc. born White people of Spanish descent) further down and Mestizos ranking lower yet.

On a subconscious level......those attitudes still may come into play in Spain.
Oh ok, you were making an assumption that MS-13 members tend to back down from Spaniards in Spain because they are of a higher social class, based on race determined status in Latin America.

I thought you were claiming that as fact.

I doubt they back down when confronted based on any Latin American caste system.
Maybe they tend to "back down" like any other criminals tend to do when "confronted" by the authorities.
But I don't think its over any inferiority complex.

I rarely see minorites "backing down when confronted" here in the U.S.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:04 PM
 
1,487 posts, read 1,993,295 times
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There are plenty of reasons why some of the Latin Americans tend to back down in front of the Spanish police but don't back down as readily from the American police. One reason is that the American police, in spite of some incidents, don't lean on them as much as the Spanish police tend to. Some of the police practices from the Franco era are still around and if the person is a foreign criminal his chances of discovering that tend to be very good, so the word is out.

In some cases it may just be language. When i worked for the INS as an interpreter for the Mariel Cuban parole hearings I got more respect and cooperation than most the interpreters who spoke with a Latin American accent or the USPB and Deportation Agents because I spoke with a Castillian accent. You'd think it would have the opposite effect since that was the accent of those who put the Latin Americans into servitude but it wasn't the case at all. Of course I was also helped by the techniques that I learned as an interrogator with the Spanish Civil Guard. I only interpreted for the INS but it wasn't too difficult to put on the Grand Inquisitor's hat. That these people are foreigners isn't important but the fact that they are criminals is. They have to be treated sternly and you have to let them know that if the cooperate you just might and I said might, help them but if the screw with you you guarantee that you will make their lives miserable. It helps get results.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,662,080 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
There are plenty of reasons why some of the Latin Americans tend to back down in front of the Spanish police but don't back down as readily from the American police. One reason is that the American police, in spite of some incidents, don't lean on them as much as the Spanish police tend to. Some of the police practices from the Franco era are still around and if the person is a foreign criminal his chances of discovering that tend to be very good, so the word is out.

In some cases it may just be language. When i worked for the INS as an interpreter for the Mariel Cuban parole hearings I got more respect and cooperation than most the interpreters who spoke with a Latin American accent or the USPB and Deportation Agents because I spoke with a Castillian accent. You'd think it would have the opposite effect since that was the accent of those who put the Latin Americans into servitude but it wasn't the case at all. Of course I was also helped by the techniques that I learned as an interrogator with the Spanish Civil Guard. I only interpreted for the INS but it wasn't too difficult to put on the Grand Inquisitor's hat. That these people are foreigners isn't important but the fact that they are criminals is. They have to be treated sternly and you have to let them know that if the cooperate you just might and I said might, help them but if the screw with you you guarantee that you will make their lives miserable. It helps get results.
Much like Old School US police officers from the 1970's on back.

Some of our cops were 'pigs' back then but; there was a lot more respect for 'The Man'------and, that was from everybody no matter their race/ethnicity.
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,177,436 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Don't know how many times those lies have been debunked.


snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles
You can call that 'debunked' if you want to, but even though those figures aren't totally accurate you CAN'T deny that there is a serious problem with illegal aliens in California.
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:58 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 854,403 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
You can call that 'debunked' if you want to, but even though those figures aren't totally accurate you CAN'T deny that there is a serious problem with illegal aliens in California.
Oh there is a problem with illegal immigration in California. It's just that I, among other people, don't "deal" with it on a daily basis. It depends on one's definition of dealing.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:40 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 35,824,904 times
Reputation: 6264
Funny you pro-lawbreakers didn't like my snopes source stating that 70% of the babies born in the Dallas County Hospital are born to illegals.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:58 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,069 posts, read 21,200,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
Funny you pro-lawbreakers didn't like my snopes source stating that 70% of the babies born in the Dallas County Hospital are born to illegals.
That's funny - and I already pointed out in a previous thread that a lot of the statistics analyzed in that Snopes article were confirmed.

I was wondering when another pro-illegal poster would drag that link back out to "support" their "debunking" of the data. It just confirms it, more or less.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/3623464-post84.html
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