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Old 11-22-2008, 08:35 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Unfortunately, the racist ethnocentric supporters fraudulently refer to illegal aliens as IMMIGRANTS.
Last time I checked they did not come from outer space. I guess they immigrated here, thus making them immigrants? They are from Mexico, not Mars. They are illegal immigrants.

 
Old 11-22-2008, 08:38 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,033,451 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Last time I checked they did not come from outer space. I guess they immigrated here, thus making them immigrants? They are from Mexico, not Mars. They are illegal immigrants.
Actually, that would make them criminals if you want to be technical about it.
 
Old 11-22-2008, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Last time I checked they did not come from outer space. I guess they immigrated here, thus making them immigrants? They are from Mexico, not Mars. They are illegal immigrants.
Under US government guidelines: said 'immigrants' are indeed known as illegal aliens.
 
Old 11-22-2008, 08:58 PM
 
1,369 posts, read 3,277,594 times
Reputation: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Actually, that would make them criminals if you want to be technical about it.
Precisely.

SO we have an entire generation of children born to circumvent U.S. law, and thus, a generation of children born - to protect their parents from - U.S. law.
 
Old 11-22-2008, 10:44 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Look the only reason to call them "illegal aliens" is simply to reinforce an us-vs.-them mentalitly that the right has worked very hard to establish. Illegal immigrants creates a more familiar tone; the word immigrant is less alienating than alien. Thus, instead of finding viable means and methods to deal with the problem, people would rather build a huge fence and devote our already thin resources to the border. Think of it as a marketing ploy. Alien sounds more sinister. Immigrant has a more neutral connotation. Again, we already established they were illegal. I gey that they are technically criminals. Except the children who did not have a say where they were born. I really don't know where to stand on the law on this. On the one hand, the parents came here illegally to have a child in hopes of the child being a citizen. This may encourage more immigration. However, if this law is taken off from the books, it may NOT decrease immigration. Thus, having more illegal immigrants.

On the larger scheme, we should focus more on the social welfare for those that have crossed. Los Angeles is now a third world city due to the lack of social services to the illegals. I know the arguement will be made that they should not be here. Well, they are, and we should do something to not create a permenant underclass. Having the children born in the US being legal may actually be a means to alleviate this. This allows more financial aid and social services. Others will say that they should be kicked out since they would be using said services and they came here illegally. Well, I'd rather have my tax payer dollars go towards aiding a family than temporarily kick them out. Most studies show that if most deportees are repeat offenders, meaning that they will continue to try. So we should make a guest worker program to make it easy to come in legally.

We should focus on the children of illegal immigrants since they can be an asset to the American economy. We should fund inner city and poor rural schools, fund hospitals in poorer communities, and fund after school programs. In the long run, the investment will be beneficial to out economy. Again, we need to also encourage more legal migration. Being divisive will only compound the problem. It will lead to uneeded waste in spending and a cultural war that would reverse our progress in tolerance. That is not to say we should not catch gangsters selling arms, drugs, and people at the border...

I am sorry if this post is a little all over the place, a little tired right now.
 
Old 11-22-2008, 11:31 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Look the only reason to call them "illegal aliens" is simply to reinforce an us-vs.-them mentalitly that the right has worked very hard to establish. Illegal immigrants creates a more familiar tone; the word immigrant is less alienating than alien. Thus, instead of finding viable means and methods to deal with the problem, people would rather build a huge fence and devote our already thin resources to the border. Think of it as a marketing ploy. Alien sounds more sinister. Immigrant has a more neutral connotation. Again, we already established they were illegal. I gey that they are technically criminals. Except the children who did not have a say where they were born. I really don't know where to stand on the law on this. On the one hand, the parents came here illegally to have a child in hopes of the child being a citizen. This may encourage more immigration. However, if this law is taken off from the books, it may NOT decrease immigration. Thus, having more illegal immigrants.

On the larger scheme, we should focus more on the social welfare for those that have crossed. Los Angeles is now a third world city due to the lack of social services to the illegals. I know the arguement will be made that they should not be here. Well, they are, and we should do something to not create a permenant underclass. Having the children born in the US being legal may actually be a means to alleviate this. This allows more financial aid and social services. Others will say that they should be kicked out since they would be using said services and they came here illegally. Well, I'd rather have my tax payer dollars go towards aiding a family than temporarily kick them out. Most studies show that if most deportees are repeat offenders, meaning that they will continue to try. So we should make a guest worker program to make it easy to come in legally.

We should focus on the children of illegal immigrants since they can be an asset to the American economy. We should fund inner city and poor rural schools, fund hospitals in poorer communities, and fund after school programs. In the long run, the investment will be beneficial to out economy. Again, we need to also encourage more legal migration. Being divisive will only compound the problem. It will lead to uneeded waste in spending and a cultural war that would reverse our progress in tolerance. That is not to say we should not catch gangsters selling arms, drugs, and people at the border...

I am sorry if this post is a little all over the place, a little tired right now.

Quote:
Cost of illegal immigration in California estimated at nearly $9 billion
Quote:



By: EDWARD SIFUENTES - Staff Writer | Sunday, December 5, 2004 9:22 PM PST







California's nearly 3 million illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $9 billion each year, according to a new report released last week by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington, D.C.-based group that promotes stricter immigration policies.

Educating the children of illegal immigrants is the largest cost, estimated at $7.7 billion each year, according to the report. Medical care for illegal immigrants and incarceration of those who have committed crimes are the next two largest expenses measured in the study, the author said.

Pro-immigrant groups and Latino researchers dispute the federation's findings, calling them biased and incomplete.

Jack Martin, who wrote the report, said Thursday that the $9 billion figure does not include other expenses that are difficult to measure, such as special English instruction, school lunch programs, and welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal immigrant workers.

"It's a bottom of the range number," Martin said.

The federation is one of the nation's leading lobbying groups aimed at curbing immigration into the country.

Authors of the report say it culls information from the U.S. Census and other studies addressing the cost of illegal immigration into the country to draw its conclusions.

Gerardo Gonzalez, director of Cal State San Marcos' National Latino Research Center, which compiles data on Latinos, criticized the report. He said it does not measure some of the contributions that immigrants make to the state's economy.

"Beyond taxes, these workers' production and spending contribute to California's economy, especially the agricultural sector," Gonzalez said.

Immigrants, both legal and illegal, are the backbone of the state's nearly $28 billion-a-year agricultural industry, Gonzalez and other researchers say.

More than two-thirds of the estimated 340,000 agriculture workers in California are noncitizens, most of whom are believed to be illegal immigrants, according to a 1998 study on farmworkers prepared for the state Legislature.

Local farmers say migrant farmworkers are critical to their businesses, and without them they would have to close their farms or move their operations overseas.

Martin disagrees. He said illegal immigrants displace American workers by taking low-skilled jobs, keep wages low by creating an overabundance of workers and stifle innovation by reducing the need for mechanized labor.

"The product of the illegal immigrant is not included (in the report) because if that is an essential product it will get done one way or another," Martin said. Employers "would have to pay better wages or invest money on mechanization."

Martin's study looks specifically at the costs of educating illegal immigrants' children, providing medical care to illegal immigrants and jailing those convicted of committing crimes. The report estimates the total cost at $10.5 billion each year, but that is offset by about $1.7 billion in taxes that illegal immigrants pay.

The study assumes that there are about 1 million children of illegal immigrant parents in California, or about 15 percent of the state's K-12 school enrolled population. The estimate is based on a 1994 study by the Urban Institute that concluded there were 307,000 illegal immigrant children enrolled in the state's public schools.

Martin also added an estimate of 597,000 U.S.-born children whose parents are illegal immigrants arriving at a total of 1,022,000 children. Multiplying the number of children by the estimated $7,577 the state spends on average per pupil, the study arrived at the $7.7 billion figure.

Including the number of U.S.-born children in the study is one of the reasons pro-immigrant groups said the study is biased.

"I think FAIR is without doubt an extremist organization that tries to portray itself as a mainstream group," said Christian Ramirez, director of the San Diego office of the American Friends Service Committee, an advocate group for legal and illegal immigrants.

The study's author defended the report, saying that the children were born in the United States as a result of their parents' illegal entry into the country.

"In no way does the report identify them as different kinds of citizens, because they would not have been born in the U.S. had their parents not come into the country illegally," Martin said.

To arrive at the cost of providing health care to illegal immigrants, the federation's study used an earlier 2000 analysis of health expenses paid by border counties that concluded the state spent $908 million on medical care for immigrants.

Martin said he adjusted the 2000 figure for increases in the population and inflation on the cost of providing health care and estimated that the state will spend about $1.4 billion in 2004.

The report also estimated that the state will spend another $1.4 billion to jail the 48,000 illegal immigrants in state prisons. California is compensated by the federal government to offset the cost of housing this population, but the federal payments were a fraction, about $111 million, of the total cost, Martin said.

To figure out the contributions that this immigrant population makes in taxes, the federation's study said it adjusted the Urban Institute's study estimates of $732 million for population increases and concluded that they contribute about $1.7 billion in sales, income and property taxes.

A similar study conducted by the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, D.C., and released in August, said that illegal immigrants cost the federal government $10 billion more than they pay in taxes.

The federal government pays about $2.2 billion in medical treatment for uninsured immigrants, according to the report. It pays $1.9 billion in food assistance programs, such as food stamps and school lunches, for low-income families. And it pays $1.4 billion in aid to schools that educate illegal immigrant children.

Martin said states bear most of the cost of illegal immigration.

"State costs are much higher on a per capita basis because of the fact that the largest expenses are medical care and education and those are borne at the local level, not the federal," Martin said.

The federation's full report is at: www.fairus.org.

Contact staff writer Edward Sifuentes at (760) 740-5426 or esifuentes@nctimes.com.


Just think these stats are 4 years old. That being said, prey tell oh wise one, how many more BILLIONS of our hard earned, tax payer dollars do you suggest should be wasted rolling out the welcome mat for our "uninvited guest" in the rest of the US?

Last edited by JDubsMom; 11-22-2008 at 11:41 PM..
 
Old 11-22-2008, 11:37 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Under US government guidelines: said 'immigrants' are indeed known as illegal aliens.
Thank you. A criminal by any other name is still a criminal.
 
Old 11-22-2008, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Look the only reason to call them "illegal aliens" is simply to reinforce an us-vs.-them mentalitly that the right has worked very hard to establish. Illegal immigrants creates a more familiar tone; the word immigrant is less alienating than alien. Thus, instead of finding viable means and methods to deal with the problem, people would rather build a huge fence and devote our already thin resources to the border. Think of it as a marketing ploy. Alien sounds more sinister. Immigrant has a more neutral connotation. Again, we already established they were illegal. I gey that they are technically criminals. Except the children who did not have a say where they were born. I really don't know where to stand on the law on this. On the one hand, the parents came here illegally to have a child in hopes of the child being a citizen. This may encourage more immigration. However, if this law is taken off from the books, it may NOT decrease immigration. Thus, having more illegal immigrants.

On the larger scheme, we should focus more on the social welfare for those that have crossed. Los Angeles is now a third world city due to the lack of social services to the illegals. I know the arguement will be made that they should not be here. Well, they are, and we should do something to not create a permenant underclass. Having the children born in the US being legal may actually be a means to alleviate this. This allows more financial aid and social services. Others will say that they should be kicked out since they would be using said services and they came here illegally. Well, I'd rather have my tax payer dollars go towards aiding a family than temporarily kick them out. Most studies show that if most deportees are repeat offenders, meaning that they will continue to try. So we should make a guest worker program to make it easy to come in legally.

We should focus on the children of illegal immigrants since they can be an asset to the American economy. We should fund inner city and poor rural schools, fund hospitals in poorer communities, and fund after school programs. In the long run, the investment will be beneficial to out economy. Again, we need to also encourage more legal migration. Being divisive will only compound the problem. It will lead to uneeded waste in spending and a cultural war that would reverse our progress in tolerance. That is not to say we should not catch gangsters selling arms, drugs, and people at the border...

I am sorry if this post is a little all over the place, a little tired right now.
As far as the semantics of the whole thing, you make a very good point. But I think a lot of people here would rather buy into it. Or are already too brainwashed to look at the problem rationally.

Instead of looking at the problem reasonably, you get this kind of mob mentality caused by fear and even hatred caused by propaganda.
Look at all the war metaphors that is used in this issue. "invaders", "we should start a war with Mexico!" "them vs. us".
 
Old 11-23-2008, 12:04 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
As far as the semantics of the whole thing, you make a very good point. But I think a lot of people here would rather buy into it. Or are already too brainwashed to look at the problem rationally.

Instead of looking at the problem reasonably, you get this kind of mob mentality caused by fear and even hatred caused by propaganda.
Look at all the war metaphors that is used in this issue. "invaders", "we should start a war with Mexico!" "them vs. us".

It's too late for us to START a war with Mexico. Mexico already fired the first shot. When a government writes maps to assist their poverty stricken masses in carrying out the bankruptcy and mob mentality invasion of the US, it is nothing less than a declaration of war.
 
Old 11-23-2008, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
It's to late for us to START a war with Mexico. Mexico already fired the first shot. Writing maps to assist their poverty stricken masses in their mob mentality invasion of the US is the equivalent of a declaration of war.
^Case in point. Thank you.

"Mob mentality invasion"?....I'll just be walking away now..
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