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They need to go back home and apply for entry to this country like all the other immigrants have had to do who moved here permanently.
This has nothing to do w/ disliking Mexicans (or Guatemalans, or Haitians, or whatever). My experience has been that, in general, these people are good people, who truly are just wanting a better life. I have no personal animosity towards them at all . . . but it is just not the right way to do things . . . they need to immigrate legally.
I agree with you completely, Ani. They do need to enter illegally. A respect for law is crucial to the survival of our country as we know it.
I do wish, however, that everyone whose ancestors immigrated here in the 19th century or before, realize that it's quite a different situation with the Latinos who come here without skills or education. They cannot enter the US as uneducated, unskilled peasants as did my ancestors in the 19th century. Now we have quotas and requirements for those who enter legally.
Ani, you mentioned that Canadian physicians can legally enter the US because we need them. I understand this wise use of talent even though I worry about the brain drain from other countries. This is also true of doctors from Africa and the Indian subcontinent (I have an excellent Indian physician) and British doctors who wish to make more money here than in the UK. But what does a poor Mexican from a village have to offer us other than his willingness to do backbreaking toil that we US Americans prefer not to do.
I personally only want legal immigration, but I feel it's comparing apples and oranges to compare our ancestors, who came here when the states were giving away free land and no skills were required, to the poor Latinos who want nothing other than to work hard and have a decent life.
I don't pretend to have a solution - it's a real dilemma, but I'm less likely to speak disparagingly and angrily about these folks who come here to work hard and who are, in fact, exploited by our fellow Americans.
We are not a country open for settlement as we were in the 18th Century. We are an established country, with laws. This is not the Wild West, w/ people crossing borders on a whim (well, it is not supposed to be that way!!!)
Mexico is responsible for Mexico. My taxes go to support citizens of the USA. Well, they are SUPPOSED TO. How Mexico has set up its government and taken care of (or not taken care of) their own people is not something I can do a thing about - I am not a citizen of Mexico anymore than they are citizens here. Just b/c our national border adjoins theirs, it does not give Mexicans carte blanche to traverse that border and decide to make the USA their home.
There are hundreds of countries around this world who have populaces that are struggling. Their neighbors secure the borders and do not let people cross over unless authorized to do so. Why? Because each country has the right to its our Sovereignty.
I don't know where the attitude came from that we are some big Global Village here in the USA - open to anyone who wants to come and take advantage of the system of government that our forefathers fought to establish. This is confusing to me!!! No other country in this world will let ANY OF US come in and use that country's resources and get gov't entitlements handed to us. Where is this thinking coming from?
Mexico is responsible for providing schooling and jobs to the Mexican people, not the USA, not Brazil, not the UK, not Germany. If the Mexicans can't elect people who will work to make sure the people of Mexico live a good life, why is that the USA's responsibility?
Here is the way it works. If any of our American citizens feel a need to help other countries in a humanitarian way . . . there are plenty of avenues to do that. Establish a business in Mexico, wh/ gives people work and a paycheck (American businesses have done that). Work through your church to establish free clinics and schools (American churches of all denominations have done that!!!!!) Take a vacation to some region of Mexico and spend your tourism dollars there (Americans, and indeed, people from all over the world, do that). Other than that - Mexico is a country w/ a bona fide government!!!! You wanna invade Mexico and take it over and "run it right?" Cause other than going thru/ another Conquistador period where America and Mexico decide to fight for Sovereignty . . . I don't GET IT!!!!!
Mexican officials have decided how Mexican citizens will live, just as our elected officials have enacted our laws. Just as European countries have enacted theirs. You wanna go invade Mexico???? Well, Mexicans are invading our country every day!!! They have nearly bankrupted the state of California.
We have a system in place - VISAS. People come here to work, to go to school. If a Mexican wants to apply for a VISA, he/she can do it like anyone else. What obligation do we have to let ANYONE into this country? I mean - REALLY? What obligation? Is France or Germany or Switzerland or Belgium or the UK gonna just let you in cause you decide you wanna go there and live? TRY IT!!! See how hard it is to get a VISA!!! And that is the legal way to do things. You want citizenship in one of those countries? TRY IT!!! See how easy it is!!!!!!
Why is it that we Americans can recognize the sovereignty of any other country in this world, including China and N. Korea, even countries we KNOW are violating human rights, but then we won't even stand up for OUR OWN sovereignty?
As Americans, we get castigated for Capitalistic pursuits. But dang, ain't that the very reason Mexicans are flocking here - to partake of our Capitalism and the life it has created for the TAX PAYING citizens who live here LEGALLY?
Everyone wants a piece of America, but no one wants to pay the price for obtaining it!!!! And that is at the crux of this matter!
Last edited by brokensky; 08-02-2008 at 07:35 AM..
Reason: typo
whoa wait a second did someone just say "what does an mexican have to offer us other than backbreaking work that a US-citizen won't do?" WOW I've underestimated the south...
everyone wants a piece of the American Dream- who is to say that they can't come here and get a job, money, and education so that they can find a great job at Wachovia or Duke Energy or another reputable Charlotte company- they are here to make a better life for themselves and support their families
if you want to make it harder and harder for US citizens to travel around the world and potentially live in other places then make sure you elect the old man from Arizona to turn a deaf ear to the world for another 4 years
at least we know the old guys at the VFW post will be taken care of!
Ani, I'm not offering a solution. I'm merely trying to put this discussion in perspective. Yes, we are an established country of laws, but we were back then at the turn of the 19th-20th century. Back then we also had poor folks in Europe who wanted a piece of the action surrounding us. The main difference was that our country had a lot of land to settle - land that was cheap or even free. People didn't need visas the - they just needed to prove that they were of sound mind and body and were not criminals. Now the kind of needy person has changed and we tend to look down on them. My ancestors from eastern Europe were also looked down upon, BTW. But look where their progeny have gotten in two generations.
I'm just trying to say that we need to find an equitable solution to this dilemma because the Latinos are going to keep coming. We will continue to accept the wealthy, educated ones who fly into Miami with educational or visitor's visas, but scorn the poor who sneak across the border.
Here is the way I see it. People breaking the law to come into this country - OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY - should be sent back home. We view them w/ scorn? Well, they are here illegally!!!!
We should be carefully screening every person who comes into this country, for any reason - on a student Visa or on a work Visa or as a legal immigrant who wishes to become a citizen.
We are allowing a poverty class to be created in this country, and the citizens of this country - the taxpayers, the educated, the hard working - are having to underwrite their stay here. Now that makes no sense at all. If someone wants to immigrate here and they bring skills and are going to pay taxes . . . then it makes total sense that the government will allow them in.
Why should we allow a LARGER poverty class to be created in this country?
The lax policies of the 70s and 80s have nothing to do w/ the undocumented people who are here now.
Oh, I didn't say everything I wanted to say.
You said:
"I think that's easy to say if you were born in the US and you've only known US citizenship and you've never had to "compete" or vie for your citizenship coming from a relatively impoverished country in an extremely corrupt immigration system that expects you to give up your culture the moment you get here:"
Wait a minute. That ain't right!!!! My ancestors - both sides of my family - fought in the Revolutionary War. So excuse me, I have every right to be here . . . and a price was paid so that I could be here. Plus, I have been paying my taxes since I started working at 16 . . . as did my father and his father before him and his father before him and his father before him . . . well, you get the picture (I should hope).
My family came here and not only endured much hardship to GET here, they endured much hardship after they arrived. So, yes, a price was paid for my citizenship. It was not a right; it was a privilege that was earned and thus, became a right.
Immigrating to this country is not a right. It is a privilege granted to those who are willing to PAY THE PRICE to be a citizen here. That includes immigrating here legally and learning the language and the laws once one gets here.
This country is not some global village where anyone who wants to come squat can just climb a wall and come on over. Oh, well, yes, I guess it has been . . . but don't act all self righteous now that the majority of actual CITIZENS are fed up b/c so many citizens from other countries have decided it is THEIR RIGHT to cross a border ILLEGALLY and come homestead on our back 40.
I too wish I could give you more rep. You captured what I feel perfectly. I come from one half of my family who came here in the 50's and acheived their citizenship. They treasured it, embraced the american culture while perserving their own culture at home, raised their kids (my dad and aunts/uncles) that while born here but to respect this country and not take it for granted. My other side can be traced back to Lincoln's time in history. I feel doubly blessed and treaure that I live here. I feel the illegals tarnish, cheapen and take advantage of that.
I'm just trying to say that we need to find an equitable solution to this dilemma because the Latinos are going to keep coming. We will continue to accept the wealthy, educated ones who fly into Miami with educational or visitor's visas, but scorn the poor who sneak across the border.
Does it cost something to get an educational or visitor's visa to come? I don't know anything about visas and how they work.
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