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Old 08-03-2008, 10:12 PM
 
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Texas defies World Court, Bush on execution - Yahoo! News (broken link)

This article both angers and perplexes me. I'm confused as to why the Mexican government feels it should interfere in this matter but not in the matter of thousands of Mexicans illegally crossing the border into the U.S. I'm just going to say that, overall, I oppose the death penalty. If it was up for a vote, I'd vote to abolish it. At the same time, there are certain crimes that even I can admit should merit the death penalty since the death penalty is already in place. An example is Vincent Brothers, a principal from my hometown who went to Ohio to visit family then rented a car, drove home, and killed his wife, mother-in-law, and three children including an infant. If the death penalty exists and is meted out, that sort of crime merits the death penalty.

But I digress, can someone explain this situation to me? Here is what I understand so far. Illegal immigrant lives in U.S. from childhood, joins a gang, gets drunk with friends and savagely gang rapes and murders two teenage girls. A jury found him guilty and he was sentenced with the death penalty, it seems pretty simple to me. So can anyone explain to me why Mexico wants to keep him from being executed? Why is the real issue, the fact that he perpetrated an unthinkable crime, being ignored?
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Old 08-03-2008, 10:44 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
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US does the same thing, do you remember the Singapore Caning Punishment of Michael Peter Fay a White American Student who spray painted cars in Singapore? Bill Clinton tried to interfere with punishment claiming that caning was too cruel for a US citizen.

The kid still ended up getting caned though, 6 lashes I believe. I was living in Singapore at the time, in 1994.

Judicial caning in Singapore, April 1994 - CORPUN ARCHIVE sgju9404

Last edited by Mach50; 08-03-2008 at 10:53 PM..
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Old 08-03-2008, 10:48 PM
 
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I remember that, I saw it on I Love the 90s. But I don't think vandalism can really be compared to rape and murder. And, like you said, he was punished, just like this guy should be the same as if he was just a regular American citizen who'd committed the same act.
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Old 08-03-2008, 10:54 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangodoodles View Post
I remember that, I saw it on I Love the 90s. But I don't think vandalism can really be compared to rape and murder. And, like you said, he was punished, just like this guy should be the same as if he was just a regular American citizen who'd committed the same act.
Just like we are against caning, Mexico has abolished its death penalty, so of-course they are against it.
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:02 PM
 
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Again, you can hardly compare vandalism of a few cars to savage rape and murder of two teenage girls. If an American citizen went to another country, one with the death penalty, and committed an atrocious act, let's say the exact same act as the man in question, then I don't see why the country wouldn't allow him to be punished for what he's done.
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:07 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
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I don't see why there is a need to compare the harshness of a crime, US has done the same thing with Singapore. We opposed their punishment because we did not believe in their laws and punishment, that is the point, severity doesn't matter IMO.

Some countries are vehemently against the death penalty. Most of Europe, Canada, and Latin American have abolished capital punishment and are vehemently against it.

Again you asked for someone to explain it to you, that is what I am trying to do.
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,374,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangodoodles View Post
Texas defies World Court, Bush on execution - Yahoo! News (broken link)

This article both angers and perplexes me. I'm confused as to why the Mexican government feels it should interfere in this matter but not in the matter of thousands of Mexicans illegally crossing the border into the U.S.
Let me see if I can clarify this "thing" for you:

The Mexican Governments position is that this man, an illegal immigrant, a Mexican National, was denied his rights, under international law, to contact the Mexican Counsel / Embassy who could have provided him with appropriate legal counsel.

The issue is that at no time did this man make such a request - and he had lots of opportunities to do so.

Mexico filed an action with the World Court who stated that the Mexican Nationals rights, under International Law were violated. President Bush, acceded to the Courts judgment.

Texas on the other hand is saying - it is a State issue and the rest of them can go to hell -

Hope that helps
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:23 PM
 
2,024 posts, read 3,693,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Let me see if I can clarify this "thing" for you:

The Mexican Governments position is that this man, an illegal immigrant, a Mexican National, was denied his rights, under international law, to contact the Mexican Counsel / Embassy who could have provided him with appropriate legal counsel.

The issue is that at no time did this man make such a request - and he had lots of opportunities to do so.

Mexico filed an action with the World Court who stated that the Mexican Nationals rights, under International Law were violated. President Bush, acceded to the Courts judgment.

Texas on the other hand is saying - it is a State issue and the rest of them can go to hell -

Hope that helps
Yeah, that clears it up a bit. So, he was supposed to be able to contact the Mexican Embassy? Why didn't his lawyer inform him of this right?
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,374,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangodoodles View Post
Why didn't his lawyer inform him of this right?
Its unclear on this issue as far as I can sumise. There are reports that his attorney asked if he wanted to contact the Mexican government - and got a negative response -

He did not raise the issue until after his conviction - a number of years after

Again - not too sure on this
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:35 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,712,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
I don't see why there is a need to compare the harshness of a crime, US has done the same thing with Singapore. We opposed their punishment because we did not believe in their laws and punishment, that is the point, severity doesn't matter IMO.

Some countries are vehemently against the death penalty. Most of Europe, Canada, and Latin American have abolished capital punishment and are vehemently against it.

Again you asked for someone to explain it to you, that is what I am trying to do.
And Singapore ignore our meddling and the young man received the punishment that is required under Singapore law for the crime he committed. Just like we will ignore Mexico's meddling and give Jose the punishment that he he so richly deserves.

Read this, Mach 50: Jennifer Ertman & Elizabeth Pena - murder victims

then justify the Mexican governments noble efforts to save the life of one of their exemplary citizens.

(I won't copy and past any of it, because frankly it is too horrifying. Click on the link at your own discretion)

Before you go all racial on me, one of his victims was a young woman of hispanic descent, Elizabeth Pena. Her hispanic- American father is counting the days until Jose Medellin's execution.

Quote:
Victim’s father counts down days to Medellin’s execution

Adolfo Pena says he moved from Houston to Hockley 9 years ago, not looking for clean air, but inner peace.

Six men were convicted for the girls’ murders. Jose Medellin is up for execution on Tuesday after a last minute appeal to save him from the executioner's needle was denied on August 1.

“He is still a scumbag to me. And like I said, he deserves to die,” said Pena.

Walking in Hockley and trying to enjoy the heavenly surroundings, Adolfo Pena sill can't find peace.

“Maybe when I die I can sit down and talk to my daughter,” said Pena.

He says that this little piece of heaven is missing his daughter, Elizabeth.

“Sometimes I wonder if we did bring her out here, if we'd still have her,” said Pena.
Victim’s father counts down days to Medellin’s execution | LOCAL NEWS | KHOU.com | News for Houston, Texas (http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou080802_mp_medellin.acef4f1.html - broken link)

The Dallas Morning News ran an article boo-hooing about his upcoming execution. Here is a letter to the editors from a man who had contact with Medellin in prison:

Quote:
I was so sad after I read the editorial. If these were your two daughters, would you feel the same way?

I have met José Medellín. I wrote him. I have run a death row ministry in Texas for years.

He has never shown any remorse. He has proudly confessed. I used to be opposed to the death penalty until I met José.

Where is your respect and sympathy for the victims and their families? You have not even mentioned the two girls this sick creep murdered, or their families.

José Medellín found it convenient to be a Mexican citizen when he found out it could save him. What a disgrace to all the good, honest, law-abiding Mexicans.

Execute him already. The girls, along with their families, deserve justice.

Michael Denson, founder, Catholic Death Row Ministry, Frisco
Medellín and the death penalty | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Opinion: Letters (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/letters/stories/DN-3p_death_0803edi.ART.State.Edition1.4d4441a.html - broken link)


The government of Mexico does not like the concept that we are going to execute one of their citizens who was in our country illegally? The obvious solution is for them to keep their own people in their own country, unless they have permission to legally go to the US.

Furthermore, this whole fiasco demonstrates an appalling lack of common sense on the part of the Mexican officials. Why on earth are they rabidly defending this total miscreant? Can't they find someone with at least a few redeeming qualities and campaign on their behalf? One is led to suspect that they will spring to the defense of one of their raza irrespective of what the situation is. The bottom line is that if they do not like the US death penalty, keep their Mexican citizens out of the US. Because if they happen to commit a murder while here, they may end up facing it.
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