U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 12-29-2008, 10:11 PM
 
702 posts, read 2,017,153 times
Reputation: 649

Advertisements

End welfare, free handouts, and birth rights. Save money, no war required. Solved.

 
Old 12-29-2008, 10:48 PM
 
1,149 posts, read 5,164,182 times
Reputation: 587
It seems like those who have promoted a war with Mexico do not understand the lobby politics that decide why USA should go into a war. Get real.

Increasingly in the age of information and netocracy people who are into nationalism, patriotism, and other irrational -isms, will form the future underclass. Political leaders will of course use different Machiavellian strategies to get the people behind them. Don't be naive. Iraq and Afghanistan are one of the last wars of its kind in the late individualist capitalist era with democracy being used to further hidden agendas. We're going towards a global world state and those who lack the skills to network will struggle.
 
Old 12-30-2008, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,633,862 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
You've repeated this no less than 40 times on this board. Can you please link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
?............
Admittedly; I am not sure if I read the info on a web site or in a print publication------------if the latter, it may not be in the Internet.

That stated: there is a good chance that the report stating that NL is irate over subsidizing the poorer parts of Mexico may have been intentinally supressed.
 
Old 12-30-2008, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,633,862 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by internat View Post
It seems like those who have promoted a war with Mexico do not understand the lobby politics that decide why USA should go into a war. Get real.

Increasingly in the age of information and netocracy people who are into nationalism, patriotism, and other irrational -isms, will form the future underclass. Political leaders will of course use different Machiavellian strategies to get the people behind them. Don't be naive. Iraq and Afghanistan are one of the last wars of its kind in the late individualist capitalist era with democracy being used to further hidden agendas. We're going towards a global world state and those who lack the skills to network will struggle.
Try again: there is nothing wrong with being patriotic towards one's country.

As for your 'global state' bit: it may come to pass------------but, the leader will likely be the USA.
 
Old 12-30-2008, 11:49 AM
 
1,149 posts, read 5,164,182 times
Reputation: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Try again: there is nothing wrong with being patriotic towards one's country.

As for your 'global state' bit: it may come to pass------------but, the leader will likely be the USA.
Please do not get me wrong. I'm worried about the future. I think USA is a great country. But I believe the recent financial crisis is a sign of America losing some of its power in the late Capitalist era.

Your defensive stance is expected. Patriotism in USA exists simply because there's a lack of nationalism. It's very much a constructed idea. USA is not a nation-state. Everyone is a potential American. Nowadays no one is even forced to assimilate and lose their old identity which is new in American history. Blind patriotism showing loyalty to a flag is an old way of thinking where the bourgeois use the underclass (like poor American soldiers) as tools. The new underclass blindly follow trends, consume things it does not need, and only get hold of second hand information. When you speak of USA you need to distinguish between the administration, important lobby groups such as AIPAC and the ordinary American people. The external threat of war and the recent Straussian strategies of the neo-conservatives was indeed effective to bring the population together. Nevertheless, the paradigm between old and new is ambiguous. Tribalism becomes stronger with nationalism diminishing. Larger entities are broken down to smaller, and loyalty is connected to sub-cultures. Isolation doesn't have a future, and because of that I'm actually not too sure of Obama who is more against free trade than were many other presidential candidates. The antagonism between the local and global is only apparent in the virtual world.

It won't pass and I agree with you USA will remain to be an important player (albeit with decreased power because of neo-conservative foreign policy) in our lifetime. USA will lead if it can continue to set trends. But no country should take its position for granted. I do hope USA will be leading something instead of one-party states with almost no innovation such as China. China and India are behind and they won't have the opportunity to lead any time soon. Even if they jump western Capitalism to the age of Netocracy. USA has by then become the leader again having embraced the new world order. But for this to happen USA need to be innovative and let ineffective companies die out. USA cannot compete when it comes to cheap labor. Such as the car industry that produced the same kind of cards the last 30 years whereas Toyota has been at the forefront in technology with its Toyota Prius. Opportunity should be given to new players when old companies failed to compete.

I'm not sure if you understand the meaning of a global state. It basically means that flexible networks of people in San Francisco, Seattle and Austin, as in progressive mid-size cities which the new elite look at ideal places to live in the information age, will set the trends (we are only in the beginning) and the blind consumers, mostly men in rural areas, will have a difficult time to compete. We are expected to see the same trend in Europe and Asia. The elite in Netocracy are like flock animals. They will move to search for likeminded people with varying lifestyles, and where the dynamics of culture is the largest. In many ways the new age is more brutal when the bourgeois used democracy to lead the workers. Wait and see. USA is actually in a good position because it lacks the ethnic element of the Old World. The nation-state was connected to Capitalism. Nationalism, Democracy and individualism will be put in the dump of history.

Look at the younger generation (Y) and their view of work and entrepreneurship. Loyalty to one company in the rest of your life is an old way of thinking and many of these young people go into business in small network with friends. Also politically they will show their support at grassroots level. Ron Paul had such supporters, and Obama was better at it than McCain. It's inevitable if you consider some of my points.

In the new era, family background, fortune, degree, gender, and skin color, won't be of decisive consequence. The status and power of the individual will depend on the person's concerned ability to obtain and process information, social intelligence, receptivity and flexibility.

Last edited by internat; 12-30-2008 at 12:42 PM..
 
Old 12-30-2008, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,899,609 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Admittedly; I am not sure if I read the info on a web site or in a print publication------------if the latter, it may not be in the Internet.

That stated: there is a good chance that the report stating that NL is irate over subsidizing the poorer parts of Mexico may have been intentinally supressed.
I doubt it's true at all.

That's how things work in the United States, when the middle class and rich get irate over their taxes going to help the poor.

The wealthy class of Mexico could care less, and more than likely are indifferent to the poor states, because they have it pretty good as the rich in Mexico.

But Nuevo Leon wanting to break off and join the U.S.? Being irate at subsidizing the poorer parts of Mexico? I think you just pulled those ones out of the hat.

All speculation, even your suggestion that it's possible that your theory on Nuevo Leon may have been suppressed by the gvmnt is just uninformed speculation.
 
Old 01-08-2009, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Earth
17,449 posts, read 22,970,647 times
Reputation: 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Admittedly; I am not sure if I read the info on a web site or in a print publication------------if the latter, it may not be in the Internet.

That stated: there is a good chance that the report stating that NL is irate over subsidizing the poorer parts of Mexico may have been intentinally supressed.
Secessionist sentiment in Nuevo Leon was a news story in the 1990s in the Mexican media but recieved no attention in the US media. It declined when the northern dominated PAN took over. And there was never ANY plan on the Nuevo Leon secessionists' part to join the US. The only part of Mexico that ever ASKED to join the US post-1848 was Yucatan in the early 1850s. The white elite of Yucatan felt endangered enough by Mayan revolts that they made overtures to the US and the UK to join either the US or the British Empire for protection that Santa Anna could not provide.
 
Old 01-08-2009, 12:30 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,437,255 times
Reputation: 47456
its not about mexico, its not us vs them
its us vs us.
i used to think the federal government was a watchdog
they are not they are a lapdog.
how can we do make work stimulus projects when we bring in 21 million illegals to take our jobs?
 
Old 01-08-2009, 05:59 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,624 posts, read 8,121,577 times
Reputation: 6949
I don't think people realize how pathetic the Mexican military is ... the NYPD alone could take on the entire Mexican Army and win hand's down. The Mexican Army still maintains several regiments of horse mounted cavalry for combat purposes. They also have ZERO tanks and only have a handful of French made armored personnel carriers with 90mm cannons welded on. Their navy consists of Vietnam era ex US Navy coastal patrol corvettes. Their air force consists of Vietnam era USAF hand me downs.

Mexico's military:

Army - 230,000
Mexican Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Air Force - 11,770
Mexican Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Navy - 137,500 (inc. an 8,000 member Naval Infantry Corps)
Mexican Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Federal Preventive Police (paramilitary gendarmerie) - 11,000
Federal Preventive Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My biggest fear is not the Mexican government, it's the threat of a 2nd civil war ... remember, over a million people were killed the last time Mexican had a civil war (1910 - 20) and the violence spilled over to our side of the border numerous occasions culminating the Pancho Villa's 1916 raid on Columbus, NM killed 19 Americans and sending Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing into Mexico at the head of the "Punitive Expedition" and over half a million US Army troops being sent to patrol the border - the entire US Army and the entire National Guard except for Coast Artillery units was sent to the Mexican border.
 
Old 01-08-2009, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,633,862 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
I don't think people realize how pathetic the Mexican military is ... the NYPD alone could take on the entire Mexican Army and win hand's down. The Mexican Army still maintains several regiments of horse mounted cavalry for combat purposes. They also have ZERO tanks and only have a handful of French made armored personnel carriers with 90mm cannons welded on. Their navy consists of Vietnam era ex US Navy coastal patrol corvettes. Their air force consists of Vietnam era USAF hand me downs.

Mexico's military:

Army - 230,000
Mexican Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Air Force - 11,770
Mexican Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Navy - 137,500 (inc. an 8,000 member Naval Infantry Corps)
Mexican Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Federal Preventive Police (paramilitary gendarmerie) - 11,000
Federal Preventive Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My biggest fear is not the Mexican government, it's the threat of a 2nd civil war ... remember, over a million people were killed the last time Mexican had a civil war (1910 - 20) and the violence spilled over to our side of the border numerous occasions culminating the Pancho Villa's 1916 raid on Columbus, NM killed 19 Americans and sending Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing into Mexico at the head of the "Punitive Expedition" and over half a million US Army troops being sent to patrol the border - the entire US Army and the entire National Guard except for Coast Artillery units was sent to the Mexican border.
What you outlined makes too much sense for my peace of mind; remember I live here in Arizona about 125 miles due N of the Mexican border.........and, anytime I head further south than Casa Grande---------there is something creepy in the air.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top