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Old 08-06-2008, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,236,627 times
Reputation: 4611

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebeard View Post
If I grew up in a country where much of the country lives in abject pverty and it was near impossible for me to support my family, whereas I lived a country or 2 away from the richest country in the world that accumalted the most capital from the rest of the world (AKA the most generous country in the world) then I would have no problem with the expectation the country being expected to have a human immigration policy that is realistic to the pressures from the poorer neighbors on it, whether it be the US, France, Japan, or anywhere. China deports North Korean refugees back to North Korea, I have a problem with this too. I believe neighbors have an obligation to ensure the best outcome from the whole region. No man, or country, is an island.
Your saying that we owe Mexico and their people? You better think again.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,236,627 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
Again-are we supposed to take the whole friggin country of Mexico? The whole friggin world? What about Africa? They live much worse than those in Mexico. At least the people of Mexico have billions of dollars wired back to them from their relatives here.

What about the people of Mexico fight and work to make their country better? Too much sacrifice I guess.

What about poor Americans? You act like all Americans live the high life, don't struggle and were born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Sorry it is not that way. Many Americans are born into horrible situations and work hard to get out of it without demanding others pull them out of the situation. Plenty of Americans stuggle and you know what they do. They legally work two or three jobs to better themselves. They don't break into another country, demand rights they don't deserve and then cry racism when they get caught breaking the law. So we should just give it all away just to "save the world" regardless of what it does to America or her citizens?-gotcha
Thank You!
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,236,627 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Excellent post. Sorry I can't rep you!
I was able to rep her for this.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:43 PM
 
638 posts, read 1,640,731 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Sorry, BB. Discussing policy is not spreading propaganda. Distorting policy is spreading propaganda.
Just because this spew is under the ruse of altruism, doesn't make it easier to stomach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebeard View Post
. . I'm just talking about facing reality and acknolwedging the pressures in the world to help create an immigration policy that is inclusive of all people.
In other words, we do not have an immigration policy inclusive of all people. Clever, but still a lie. Granted, there's always exceptions, i.e., Iran, because we currently don't have diplomatic relations them, and until that's resolved, immigration is going to be a problem.

Facing reality? These types have been spewing lies so long they might actually believe them. That's reality. They could be delusional.

We don't acknowledge the pressures in the world? Give me a break. Is there any country on this planet more charitable than America? Maybe, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

And that's only one sentence sucking down intelligence to stupid! It gets more irritating from there. This person talks about respect? What audacity! I don't care how long or loud they spew garbage into the microphone, it's still a lie.

"Distort" is a good word. Thanks.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,067 posts, read 15,502,486 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by r601020 View Post
Just because this spew is under the ruse of altruism, doesn't make it easier to stomach.

In other words, we do not have an immigration policy inclusive of all people. Clever, but still a lie. Granted, there's always exceptions, i.e., Iran, because we currently don't have diplomatic relations them, and until that's resolved, immigration is going to be a problem.

Facing reality? These types have been spewing lies so long they might actually believe them. That's reality. They could be delusional.

We don't acknowledge the pressures in the world? Give me a break. Is there any country on this planet more charitable than America? Maybe, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

And that's only one sentence sucking down intelligence to stupid! It gets more irritating from there. This person want to talk about respect? What audacity! I don't care how long or loud they spew garbage into the microphone, it's still a lie.

"Distort" is a good word. Thanks.
I always hear this "America is the most charitable country on earth"..and that is flat out wrong.

America gives a smaller % of GDP in foreign aid than all developed nations. Other developed nations give more as a percentage, they just do it through tax and allow their government to give on their behalf.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/45/2006_ODA_GNI.png (broken link)

ODA = Official development assistance
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,178,465 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
I always hear this "America is the most charitable country on earth"..and that is flat out wrong.

America gives a smaller % of GDP in foreign aid than all developed nations. Other developed nations give more as a percentage, they just do it through tax and allow their government to give on their behalf.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/45/2006_ODA_GNI.png (broken link)

ODA = Official development assistance
I notice that these figures are from 2006, I wonder what they would show if they used the last 25 years and averaged it out? I can't say as I know, but I would be willing to wager that the US would be much higher, if not at the TOP of THAT list.

The reason I say that is because America's RICH folks are notoriously STINGY with their money, while the lower and middle classes have ALWAYS been more generous, % of income wise. Unfortunately, the lower and middle classes have been absolutely HAMMERED over the last 15 years, due to outsourcing, offshoring and illegal immigration. Most of us haven't got 10 cents left over anymore after making house payments and paying our ever-increasing tax burden. I can assure you that I have given MUCH LESS to charity these last few years than what I was giving prior to the invasion of illegal aliens destroying my ability to earn a decent living.

And as far as our largesse is concerned, we STILL take in more legal immigrants annually than ALL other nations COMBINED!
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:35 AM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,683,444 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
The way I read your comment was in reference to your feeling that China should not refuse NK refugees . . . and my point is - China doesn't care what you think and they have the right to deport anyone who crosses their border illegally. The world has to recognize their Sovereignty, even if we disagree w/ their policies. What does that have to do w/ American immigration policy?
Sorry if I misunderstood your comment. I hope you can understand if I mix up some ideas due the the fact I'm getting attacked by a gang of people that personally attack me from all angles on points irrelevant to the issue, calling me clueless, propagandist, etc.... while I'm trying to discuss ideas and further understanding of my viewpoint.
It's cool tho.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:37 AM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,683,444 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Sorry, BB. Discussing policy is not spreading propaganda. Distorting policy is spreading propaganda.
The thing is... its your OPINION that I'm distorting, just as its my OPINION that you have a distorted view as well. Otherwise, you basically have a religious unwavering, uncritical view of the situation. We both have embedded POVs. Neither of us is propogandizing. But thanks for the personal attacks. That's pretty awesome.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:41 AM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,683,444 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
I notice that these figures are from 2006, I wonder what they would show if they used the last 25 years and averaged it out? I can't say as I know, but I would be willing to wager that the US would be much higher, if not at the TOP of THAT list.

The reason I say that is because America's RICH folks are notoriously STINGY with their money, while the lower and middle classes have ALWAYS been more generous, % of income wise. Unfortunately, the lower and middle classes have been absolutely HAMMERED over the last 15 years, due to outsourcing, offshoring and illegal immigration. Most of us haven't got 10 cents left over anymore after making house payments and paying our ever-increasing tax burden. I can assure you that I have given MUCH LESS to charity these last few years than what I was giving prior to the invasion of illegal aliens destroying my ability to earn a decent living.

And as far as our largesse is concerned, we STILL take in more legal immigrants annually than ALL other nations COMBINED!
Hmm, I'd like to see the link to this one.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:44 AM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,683,444 times
Reputation: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Your saying that we owe Mexico and their people? You better think again.
Nope. Being a human obligates you to be civil and thoughtful to other humans. Thats my opinion. Otherwise, what's the point of civilization? Governments exist so that they can better the whole of humans as a whole. Some people are born into worse situations than others. It is our obligation to leave the world better than we entered it.
People are right when they say freedom comes with a price. It also comes with obligations. Obligations to be a responsible citizen. And while I cannot force another to do so, under the guise of freedom, I can expect people to consider the pointsof views of others not of their own. To at least interact with others and try to hinestly understand ideas that may counter their own without comparing them to terrorists.
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