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Old 08-06-2008, 03:13 PM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,675,048 times
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http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/c...nclick_check=1

Immigration is driven by historical and economic necessity on both sides of the border. There are times when the United States needs Mexican labor, such as during World War I and World War II, that migration is encouraged. During economic downturns, migration is discouraged. Repression is directed toward this population, such as during the Great Depression, the economic recession of the 1950s and the present downturn.
Perhaps by analyzing and understanding history, we can change our perspective on the issue - not by building a fence across the border but by building a bridge between two countries that share a long history. It is difficult to comprehend that a physical barrier across the border will fence in history.
Most discussions of Mexican migration into the United States lack a historical perspective that lead to characterize it as a spontaneous and recent phenomenon. However, people of Mexican origin are descendants of one of the six original world civilizations and whose ancestors help lay the foundation for the development of the present-day Southwest and other regions. The melting pot theory of assimilation and its assumptions are most often used by journalists, politicians and citizens who don't believe Mexican immigrants, legal or not, are productive members of society. At best, this theory is applicable to ethnic immigrants of European heritage. Unlike European immigrants who had to traverse an ocean, this theory does not apply to
Native Americans or Mexicans who are indigenous to America.

The first significant contact between whites and Chicanos led to the Texas revolt of 1834-36 when the symbolic battle of the Alamo occurred. Many of the whites in the Alamo were undocumented because Mexico barred further white immigration into Texas in 1830. Armed with a strong military and the ideological doctrine of manifest destiny that deemed the United States as people chosen by God to rule from sea to shining sea, the United States invaded Mexico in 1846.
Mexico lost the war and signed the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. Mexico ceded California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado and parts of Nevada, Utah and Wyoming for $15 million. Under the treaty, remaining Mexicans became U.S. citizens with all rights of property, language and religion. However, the provisions were ignored; or, in the case of property, it was taken by legal and extralegal means.
Violence against Chicanos by vigilantes and law enforcement officials was so severe that scores left for Mexico. Violence faced by those remaining was comparable to what blacks faced in the South. By the early 1900s, cheap Mexican labor was needed for work in the mines, railroads, agriculture and other industries. During this period, Mexicans also migrated to the Midwest and Northwest. The Mexican Revolution and World War I also contributed to push and pull factors that brought migration of Mexicans into the United States. It is estimated one-eighth of Mexico's population legally moved into the United States during this period.
Mexican labor has been instrumental in the development of infrastructure and capital accumulation in the United States. However, with the economic depression of the 1930s, Mexican labor was no longer necessary. Hundreds of thousands of Mexicans were deported. This deportation included U.S. citizens, a practice that continues. Racial categorization in the United States is the confusion of race, nationality and ethnicity, whereby people of Mexican origin are always suspect of being foreign, regardless of legal status. To the dominant society, however, they are all indistinguishable. Unlike European immigrant groups who are removed geographically from home countries, Chicano culture and language are reinforced by new arrivals from Mexico. Unlike immigrants from other countries who can forge a new place for themselves, migrants from Mexico have a ready-made niche for them because of historical circumstances. Historical perceptions and stereotypes of Mexicans precede them as they venture into other parts of the United States. Hopefully, by understanding our shared history, we can refrain from stereotyping and scapegoating Mexicans.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 65,314,414 times
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I understand what you are trying to do - build a bridge, as it were. But what you are failing to describe is that "migrant workers" (now referred to, I believe, a "guest workrs") have always been a part of the cultural exchange, so to speak, b/n USA and Mexico. However, there are legal mechanisms that can be used to allow migrant workers into the USA. What is going on today - and what has Americans upset - is that people are sneaking in rather than applying for guest worker status (or any other status, for that matter).

All the history lessons in the world are not going to change the fact that Mexicans (and other citizens from various Central American countries) are here ILLEGALLY.

Perhaps that would not be that upsetting - but the presence of undocumented immigrants here is causing a hit to our infrastructure, wh/ is paid for my OUR TAX DOLLARS.

Mexico has it all THEIR WAY. This is not a FAIR topic. Mexico allows their citizens to come here and send money back home to underwrite their economy. Do Americans go to work in Mexico and receive freebie entitlements from their government? PLEASE!! Plus, Americans pump in tourism dollars to the Mexican economy.

So Mexico has figured out a way to bolster their own economy by A. encouraging their citizens to sneak over our border, get a job, and send money back home . . .and B. encourage Americans to come to their beaches for fun in the sun.

Until people start acknowledging that this is a one-way street - you are not gonna be able to build a bridge of understanding on the level you wish to have it. We Americans DO UNDERSTAND what is going on here. Mexico is sucking up our resources b/c they refuse to take care of their own people.

This is not difficult to understand.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Stanwood, Washington
658 posts, read 614,443 times
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Illegal=criminal=get the hell out of my country unless you come in the legal door
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:31 PM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,675,048 times
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The point is, they have not allowed enough legal avenue for the workers to get through. If the demand is high, and the supply is high, the demand will be filled, no matter how many fences you put up. Comprehensive reform is needed, not just "get the hell out of my country". Allowing a humane and realistic means of integration out of the black immigration market for most of those already here, and future immigrants, combined with increased enforcement of labor laws (for the good of the US and the good of the rights of the immigrant) are the best, most workable path. Extremeness of BOTH sides are not the answer.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:36 PM
 
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Illegal immigrants pay more taxes than you think. THe only thing they don't pay are income taxes (which at their low incomes they wouldnt pay anyway). However many have fake social security numbers, and thus are supporting the current influx of baby boomers, without ever being able to reap the rewards of social security when they are old. Living and renting a place goes in part to the landlord's propoerty taxes (local government support). The sales taxes they pay go to state and local taxes. The cheap labor they provide allow you the consumer lifestyle you have, and without them agriculture would be more mechanized, not provide more jobs (as is already currently happening in california).Plus, without cheap labor, many idustries, including agriculture, would just shift to Mexico itself or even overseas.
Legal avenues of citizenship, not hate and prejudice, are part a humane, sensible solution.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,643,200 times
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One thing that the 'Chicano' fans fail to understand is that about 10% of all Mexicans are White--------and, said ten percent tends to be the elite SOB.

I have no sympathy for Mexico's problems: many other cultures came from further down the socio-economic ladder and eclipsed the former nation in overall affluence.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,581 posts, read 9,010,657 times
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I understand the changing economic conditions in both countries have led to increasing and decreasing motivations for Mexican labor and monetary flow. That has nothing to do with the legalities of the situation, nor moral imperatives on the US policy.

Many tend to feel that since the US benefited from the cheap immigrant labor, we owe special consideration to the descendants of those laborers. That argument seems to me to be the same line of thought that since we have provided humanitarian aid and post-war rebuilding fund (and free labor via our military), we are owed a similar debt from their governments and peoples.

Where is our preferenctial tourist pass to Mexico, Brasil, Cambodia, Viet Nam, Germany, Japan, France, and many other countries? Why have we not received our free tribute oil from the middle east and South America? Why is our dollar still not granted a premium value over market on international exchange funds? Why are these people who owe our ancestors so much not grateful and deferential to me?

I just don't understand...... I even learned to order beer and ask about the restroom in their language to show I am their friend too.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:57 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 65,314,414 times
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BLUEBIRD: They are here ILLEGALLY! Why do you keep trying to justify that? If you or I were to climb a fence and sneak into Germany, France, Italy, etc . . . we would get booted out. No one would be making EXCUSES for why it was "really ok" for us to be there.

Get real!!!!
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:01 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,177,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebeard View Post
Illegal immigrants pay more taxes than you think. THe only thing they don't pay are income taxes (which at their low incomes they wouldnt pay anyway). However many have fake social security numbers, and thus are supporting the current influx of baby boomers, without ever being able to reap the rewards of social security when they are old. Living and renting a place goes in part to the landlord's propoerty taxes (local government support). The sales taxes they pay go to state and local taxes. The cheap labor they provide allow you the consumer lifestyle you have, and without them agriculture would be more mechanized, not provide more jobs (as is already currently happening in california).Plus, without cheap labor, many idustries, including agriculture, would just shift to Mexico itself or even overseas.
Legal avenues of citizenship, not hate and prejudice, are part a humane, sensible solution.
Oh thank you soooo much illegal aliens for stealing social security numbers and commiting id theft and fraud-how very kind of you to do that in the name of keeping social security solvent. It is unbelieveable that one can try to justify id fraud that way.

Hate and prejudice? Legal avenues of citizenship? Are we supposed to take the whole friggin country of Mexico? How about the whole friggin world? We take in more LEGAL immigrants than all other countries from around the world. Not to mention the 20-30+ million illegals who are here putting strain on our welfare, hospitals, schools etc. Any small amount illegals may pay in taxes is more than offset by the social services etc that they use. Not to mention the billions they send home out of the US economy.

We don't owe any other country a damn thing. Are you trying to justify illegals by saying that we don't allow enough legals? Then you throw around the "hate" and "prejudice"-how very original of you. Sorry but the majority of the members on this board and in this country are sick of excuses and threats by the pro-illegal lobby. We see through it-use all the labels that you want-it will not weaken our resolve.

Sorry but wanting laws enforced and borders secured in addition to wanting controlled legal immigration only makes us a smart country looking out for her citizens. It does not make us racist or hateful. Be careful, I am telling you, calling the most generous nation on earth those names only hurts your cause-it does not in anyway help it.

Last edited by nicolem; 08-06-2008 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:12 PM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,675,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
BLUEBIRD: They are here ILLEGALLY! Why do you keep trying to justify that? If you or I were to climb a fence and sneak into Germany, France, Italy, etc . . . we would get booted out. No one would be making EXCUSES for why it was "really ok" for us to be there.

Get real!!!!
If I grew up in a country where much of the country lives in abject pverty and it was near impossible for me to support my family, whereas I lived a country or 2 away from the richest country in the world that accumalted the most capital from the rest of the world (AKA the most generous country in the world) then I would have no problem with the expectation the country being expected to have a human immigration policy that is realistic to the pressures from the poorer neighbors on it, whether it be the US, France, Japan, or anywhere. China deports North Korean refugees back to North Korea, I have a problem with this too. I believe neighbors have an obligation to ensure the best outcome from the whole region. No man, or country, is an island.
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