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Old 01-27-2007, 08:56 AM
 
24 posts, read 13,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
You obviously have the problem many others have, of not differentiating between "immigrant" and "illegal". If they are a legal immigrant, they can receive government assistance... and speaking English isn't a requirement of citizenship. Like it or not, that's how the law stands!
Uh. Unfortunatly for you, you didn't bother to read my post the way it was written but rather went off on a tangent.

My question was, in fact, directed at legal immigrants. I'm disgusted how we let people in and then they simply leech off our tax dollars. Absolutely no benefit for such a sickening policy. Like America needs more Third World people.
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Old 01-27-2007, 08:58 AM
 
24 posts, read 13,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerryPie View Post
How can you tell if someone is an illegal? Can't know for sure, but you have a pretty good clue if they speak in Spanish, and buy their groceries with food stamps/card, and you are in an area where slave labor is used.
Sadly enough, the majority probably aren't illegal. We let in over a million legal immigrants a year and the majority are uneducated and from Latin America (and the majority there from Mexico). We have no plans to assimilate these non-White, non-English speaking peoples and they don't care to assimilate and learn our culture. They want to leech off what Europeans created over centuries into a World Superpower and destroy it wherever they inhabit in large numbers (and if you go to any Latino-immigrant area of the USA you'll find something resembling Tijuana).
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:14 AM
 
1,608 posts, read 9,029,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Las Vegas Dude View Post
They want to leech off what Europeans created over centuries into a World Superpower and destroy it wherever they inhabit in large numbers (and if you go to any Latino-immigrant area of the USA you'll find something resembling Tijuana).
You are so correct! I have been seeing quite a few of your posts and I completely agree with you, you are so dead on accurate. Most people outside of LA have never seen what these people have done to places like LA. It's a mess and over taken by illegal immigrants.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,484,350 times
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Berry Pie, I understand your frustration and perhaps some of your anger, but speaking Spanish and having food stamps doesn't equal an illegal immigrant.

I lived in NYC for many years, all those speaking Spanish are legal--most from Puerto Rico.

I live now in NM and most of my neighbours speak Spanish and have lived here for 5, 10, 15 generations.

When I am with friends that speak Dutch, I speak Dutch, but I am an American citizen.

Labeling too quickly is a disaster! And, it hurts you more than it hurts someone who can buy an exotic piece of fruit.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:28 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,024,071 times
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Two points of view to offer that have factual basis:

1) European is but one asset to our history. Granted the initial brilliance of our fledgling USA was based upon blending an "upgrade" of English laws with Socratic ideals from Greek democracy, courtesy of our founders' classic education, but that stops the story from continuing to the present.

A pertinent, somewhat more modern example that applies to everyone online this second- the computer revolution was generated by some singular geniuses, but what if the educated work force hadn't been in place to follow through in bringing the product down from the inventors' mountain and into the businesses, institutions and homes of America? Fortunately there was in the Bay area of California and the famous Silicon Valley. In addition to whatever homegrown scholars they had, this area had a unique demographic in place there as well. 100 years before, that part of Calif. had imported Chinese workers to build the railroads, and throughout the century, attracted large populations of Asians. This demographic had a high regard for education, possibly due to Confucian background. This demographic then produced a huge, highly educated workforce to understand and implement the computer geniuses' new products, and voila, a better world for all. Our thoroughly assimilated Americans of Asian descent are some of our best Americans. On a more emotional level, I can't imagine a modern world without the pleasures of the farflung musical contributions of the African-American community. I'm sure you all can come with so many other examples as well.

2)Having said that, I whole-heartedly agree with one of Red Wings Fan and Las Vegas Dude's shared conclusions, based upon the reality surrounding me daily which will result in our moving. Divisive, defiant and deliberately unassimilated illegals from south of our borders have turned my city of Los Angeles, (which is designated a "sanctuary" city for them, and where it's against the law to ask immigration status of apprehended suspects, courtesy of Police Special Order 40) into the following.

Our middle class areas now resemble lower class slums, from extensive trash and graffiti. I have been told by members of their demographic that there is no cultural prohibition against littering and trashing everything there, since trash collection is not widespread. A whole generation has grown up thinking third world mores are "normal." They are NOT, outside of L.A.

All our middle class children now have to wade through gang-culture schools, as the vendetta mentality of that demographic seems to incubate gang culture generation after generation. This largest demographic does not seem to share the emphasis on education as a whole, and it takes inbelievably sincere and inspired individual teachers or occasional relatives to break through that void.

The repudiation of "e pluribus unum" goes from unsettling to dangerous in real life when cultures choose to avoid assimilation and avoid at least attempting to learn some English, which is the lingua franca that helps our diverse origin populace be able work as a whole for the good of the whole, and, dare I say, communicate with each other. Even Africa promotes Swahili so that all tribes can begin to communicate with all their fellow Africans. I've been through genuine emergencies like 1994 earthquake epicenter, and you can't even help people that had zero interest in ever learning English. And it's dangerous: they don't learn driving laws or signage. I've had 3 major accidents in the last 6 years with 2 cars totaled by illegals, who had no drivers' licenses and lied to the police (with translators) so they couldn't be traced.

Lastly, the predisposition for illegal immigration in L.A. (there are 300 new illegals arriving daily here- I compiled this # from govt. charts, % of new arrivals here, and % of illegals here as a whole) has fostered mindset of overall lawlessness here. If one breaks a huge Federal statute to get here, why bother with any law? It doesn't apply! Even when you scan the boards here, you'll find the new generation that doesn't ever distinguish between the words "legal" and "illegal" when it applies to their own, specific, cultural background. They've lost sight of the meaning of lawfulness, as surely as this highly Balkanized demographic thinks that the entirety of the U.S. has to be changed to accomodate their one demographic. That fact that every other demographic gladly evolved to become American doesn't count to them.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:29 AM
 
1,608 posts, read 9,029,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
speaking Spanish and having food stamps doesn't equal an illegal immigrant.
.
No? What it means is someone getting American taxpayer money and not willing to respect the country and speak English. Sound about right? If they can take our money and service you think the least they could do is respect our language and speak English.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,484,350 times
Reputation: 3826
If two people are together and speak another language, it is not disrespect. It would only be disrespect if they wanted us to speak their language.

I speak 3 languages and speak them when and with whom it is appropriate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsFan View Post
No? What it means is someone getting American taxpayer money and not willing to respect the country and speak English. Sound about right? If they can take our money and service you think the least they could do is respect our language and speak English.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:34 AM
 
1,608 posts, read 9,029,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
If two people are together and speak another language, it is not disrespect. It would only be disrespect if they wanted us to speak their language.
Excuse me, but they DO! Ever been to a public school in America in a city with a high hispanic population? I have. They have bilingual teachers come in and teach classrooms FULL of non-English speaking students. Ever see the dual language signs that are becoming the norm? I do, they are taking over. They DO expect us to speak THEIR language!! That's the problem. All other immigrant groups throughout history that came to this country assimilated. They refuse to.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,484,350 times
Reputation: 3826
If some were pandered to, it isn't necessarily they that are at fault.

And if you read my previous post, you will see I lived in NYC --with about 30% Spanish-speakers, and now live in the state that is about 50-60% Spanish-speaking.

No one has ever asked me to speak Spanish--unless I chose to! And I mean never!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsFan View Post
Excuse me, but they DO! Ever been to a public school in America in a city with a high hispanic population? I have. They have bilingual teachers come in and teach classrooms FULL of non-English speaking students. Ever see the dual language signs that are becoming the norm? I do, they are taking over. They DO expect us to speak THEIR language!! That's the problem. All other immigrant groups throughout history that came to this country assimilated. They refuse to.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:55 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,024,071 times
Reputation: 1788
HAH! Here we have the ugly head of provincialism rising. Ontheroad, you would be utterly discriminated against in job-seeking in Los Angeles if you failed to speak Spanish, which their community calls "bi-lingual." Your being conversant in Dutch would not mean "bi-lingual" to them. This goes from entry-level on up. Your other skills would mean zilch. And I personally hate to see discrimination like this institutionalized here, as well as this setback to learning the rest of the world's languages for business advancement and personal satisfaction. Just the language of the law-breakers!

Come visit Los Angeles, you'll see that our worst-case scenario of deliberate non-assimilation has fostered a very impolite-to-cruel new society. And the disrespect you posted of is the norm with defiant non-learning of English. Signage doesn't even include English translation, to the great consternation of firefighters amonsgt others.
Americans want newcomers to be able to converse with the rest of America. The fanatical non-assimilationists don't.
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