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View Poll Results: Which choice best describes you?
latino/hispanic, and FOR illegal immigrants/amnesty 4 4.71%
latino/hispanic, and AGAINST illegal immigration/amnesty 14 16.47%
NON-latino/hispanic, and FOR illegal immigrants/amnesty 9 10.59%
NON-latino/hispanic, and AGAINST illegal immigration/amnesty 58 68.24%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-12-2008, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Missouri
3,640 posts, read 4,308,379 times
Reputation: 768

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I know but it's even worse when they think we're stupid. Justifying racism by trying to say "raza" in Mexico doesn't mean what it does is just like trying to claim "Christian Identity" really just means Christianity.

Raza is most obviously the word in Spanish for breed or race. Every one of those links I posted are to Mexican domain web sites. The other way raza is used is referring to Columbus Day but that's not what the La Raza group is about.
I know what you mean. One has to realize that the illegal lovers know that their time is getting shorter in this country and that the Americans are fed up. It is a shame, it really is because this is not the America I was raised to love. It has come close to being a shell of its former self and all of this from being overrun by immigration, both illegal and legal. The real problem is that violence is now breaking out in a spot here and a spot there and it seems to be spreading. I don't wish to see Americans of Mexican descent hurt just because of their skin color and unfortunately I see that it probably will come down to that. if that is the case then people like me and my wife and others I know are in deep doo doo because we won't be accepted by any side.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:59 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,059 posts, read 15,464,992 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Good commentary, but "el pueblo" would be more encompassing of the idea that several forumers are trying to express here. Sure, "la raza" would be good for "brothers and sisters," but precisely because it implies (in English AND in Spanish, to a lesser extent) that there is some kind of biological or racial connection between the people in question. "El pueblo," on the other hand, has NO racial connotation and simply means "the community."
Actually I believe there are groups named "El Pueblo" so maybe they are going to transition to that.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:04 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Political Junky View Post
I know what you mean. One has to realize that the illegal lovers know that their time is getting shorter in this country and that the Americans are fed up. It is a shame, it really is because this is not the America I was raised to love. It has come close to being a shell of its former self and all of this from being overrun by immigration, both illegal and legal. The real problem is that violence is now breaking out in a spot here and a spot there and it seems to be spreading. I don't wish to see Americans of Mexican descent hurt just because of their skin color and unfortunately I see that it probably will come down to that. if that is the case then people like me and my wife and others I know are in deep doo doo because we won't be accepted by any side.
It shouldn't be about skin color at all. I don't think it will be, but I think we cannot let this escalate. People on both sides of a border must respect that border or problems develop.

There was an incident here some years back. (Here is on the border) Over in Juarez some Mexicans were protesting something and came over the bridge and took down the American flag and began desecrating it.

There was a group of American kids -- barrio kids who went to the bridge prepared to do battle to defend our flag. Many of those kids' dad fought in Vietnam, they are of Mexican or Spanish-American ancestry but their allegience was clear.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Missouri
3,640 posts, read 4,308,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It shouldn't be about skin color at all. I don't think it will be, but I think we cannot let this escalate. People on both sides of a border must respect that border or problems develop.

There was an incident here some years back. (Here is on the border) Over in Juarez some Mexicans were protesting something and came over the bridge and took down the American flag and began desecrating it.

There was a group of American kids -- barrio kids who went to the bridge prepared to do battle to defend our flag. Many of those kids' dad fought in Vietnam, they are of Mexican or Spanish-American ancestry but their allegience was clear.
Yes, there are many of us who love our country and will fight for it, but it is still scary these days.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:10 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,059 posts, read 15,464,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes -- just like "carnalismo" which La Raza also promotes. Un carnal is one way of saying "brother" but it refers more to flesh and blood. I think that is racism too -- because cannot an Asian be your brother in the sense of metaphorical meaning and bond?

The USA should be about forgetting race and ethnicities and bonding together as Americans. Like Martin Luther's "I have a dream", he was not trying to separate people by their skin color but integrate Americans.
Well hey I agree with you there, unfortunately we aren't there yet. You see as long as we have racial socioeconomic divides and closed upper echelon of old white majority in this country there will be a minority that fights and wants handouts. So if you truly want to subside racial divide, then white people will have to open some doors and let some minorities in the upper ranks. As a part Hispanic Male working in the professional world I will tell you there are still bias and good old boys up there.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Missouri
3,640 posts, read 4,308,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Well hey I agree with you there, unfortunately we aren't there yet. You see as long as we have racial socioeconomic divides and closed upper echelon of old white majority in this country there will be a minority that fights and wants handouts. So if you truly want to subside racial divide, then white people will have to open some doors and let some minorities in. As a part Hispanic Male working in the professional world I will tell you there are still bias and good old boys here.
Yes there is but they don't even try to fix those same problems in their own counties. But they come to our country and immediately start bitching and moaning and groaning because of the way they are treated. I am afraid that we have not seen anything yet. White people don't need to open any doors because they are pretty well open if one wants to bad enough. Whining about your lot in life and always blaming it on the whites is exactly why you are failing.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:18 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,272,188 times
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This discussion has nothing to do with "white" people and discrimination. Hispanics are largely NOT failing in this country and the ones to whom this statement doesn't apply shouldn't be blaming "white" people for their failures. Back to the real issue, please.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:21 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,059 posts, read 15,464,992 times
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I agree Crisp hispanics or any race are not failing, but there are racial socioeconomic divides.
Yes we are off-topic here, but this is where the conversation went.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:24 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,272,188 times
Reputation: 1675
Of course there are, but that is expected when a large percentage of people from that ethnicity are recent immigrants who a) don't come from privileged backgrounds and b) don't speak English well. I don't blame this on discrimination; if you look at groups who have been here for a while and don't have a high proportion of very recent immigrants like Spanish-Americans, Cuban-Americans, etc. the levels of household income and educational attainment are either on par with - or surpass - those of the American average.
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:55 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Of course there are, but that is expected when a large percentage of people from that ethnicity are recent immigrants who a) don't come from privileged backgrounds and b) don't speak English well. I don't blame this on discrimination; if you look at groups who have been here for a while and don't have a high proportion of very recent immigrants like Spanish-Americans, Cuban-Americans, etc. the levels of household income and educational attainment are either on par with - or surpass - those of the American average.

I would blame that on their intellectural laziness and figuring they shouldn't be expected to learn English or much of anything.

Look at immigrants from India or Pakistan who are willing to learn and speak English -- they tend to do very well, better than average. They don't use skin color to make themselves into some kind of victim immigrant type. Hispanics who might actually be fairer in complexion will break any law to get into this country and the minute they arrive start crying about discrimination. Yet -- they refuse to live in their own hispanic paradises where obviously they face no anti-hispanic discrimination.

Sometimes when you want to be an immigrant, making a little effort to fit in with the people of the country you chose to live in, at the very least learning the language of that country but better yet adapting to the culture of that country goes a very long way.

It would be like if a bunch of poor Americans went to live in Mexico but refused to learn any Spanish and expected affirmative action to get them any job they wanted -- they also might not do too well but would anyone feel sorry for them?
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