U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Celebrating Memorial Day!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-13-2008, 11:50 AM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,073 posts, read 21,223,552 times
Reputation: 22556

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Re: Minutemen. It makes the "pro-illegal" side look bad to imply that this is a racist or white supremecist group which only uses "token people of color" to hide this. It's yet another sad way to inject race into this whole debate, and further deviates us from working towards solutions. I might anger some people by saying this, but I think the biggest racists in this whole fight are the people who chant "go back to Europe" and insist that Mexicans with indigenous blood have a racial right to live in this country. There are some racists on both sides, but the above really gets my blood boiling.
Again, balanced perspective that seems to be harder to find on the immigration forum lately. I am dismayed that this thread took a turn for the nasty last night but appreciate that you at least didn't resort to ad hominem attacks and name calling.

To Guy - don't let amc get under your skin - he probably gets some sick sense of satisfaction in insulting you with personal attacks on your work history and lot in life and feels like he "scores" each time he gets to you. I kinda feel sorry for him because if he actually believes the tripe he writes then he's got little hope himself careerwise.

I think this debate - what to do about illegal immigration in this country and the fall-out from the two opposing sides is what will make or break this country. For those who don't think illegal immigration is a "big deal" they just aren't seeing far enough into the future and their scope is limited. I just hope everyone can keep a level head and this so called "blood in the streets" stuff will not come to fruition.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-13-2008, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Again, balanced perspective that seems to be harder to find on the immigration forum lately. I am dismayed that this thread took a turn for the nasty last night but appreciate that you at least didn't resort to ad hominem attacks and name calling.

To Guy - don't let amc get under your skin - he probably gets some sick sense of satisfaction in insulting you with personal attacks on your work history and lot in life and feels like he "scores" each time he gets to you. I kinda feel sorry for him because if he actually believes the tripe he writes then he's got little hope himself careerwise.

I think this debate - what to do about illegal immigration in this country and the fall-out from the two opposing sides is what will make or break this country. For those who don't think illegal immigration is a "big deal" they just aren't seeing far enough into the future and their scope is limited. I just hope everyone can keep a level head and this so called "blood in the streets" stuff will not come to fruition.
I couldnít agree more. Sadly, the venom is escalating, and I fear rational thinking will soon be supplanted by irrational acts of violence. I canít help but wonder if that isnít precisely what the powers that be designed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2008, 12:19 PM
 
Location: South Bay Native
13,073 posts, read 21,223,552 times
Reputation: 22556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I couldnít agree more. Sadly, the venom is escalating, and I fear rational thinking will soon be supplanted by irrational acts of violence. I canít help but wonder if that isnít precisely what the powers that be designed.
Well, one thing I am wondering if those same "powers that be" love exploiting their illegals, why would they ever give them any legality? Then they will just have to find ANOTHER source of 'illiterate peasants' and we'll have affectively added millions to our jobless-and-incapable-of-self-support individuals. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2008, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,685,038 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Re: Minutemen. It makes the "pro-illegal" side look bad to imply that this is a racist or white supremecist group which only uses "token people of color" to hide this. It's yet another sad way to inject race into this whole debate, and further deviates us from working towards solutions. I might anger some people by saying this, but I think the biggest racists in this whole fight are the people who chant "go back to Europe" and insist that Mexicans with indigenous blood have a racial right to live in this country. There are some racists on both sides, but the above really gets my blood boiling.
And you are correct.

Besides; the MEChA types would not dare spew their rhetoric in Mexico for obvious reasons.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2008, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
Well, one thing I am wondering if those same "powers that be" love exploiting their illegals, why would they ever give them any legality? Then they will just have to find ANOTHER source of 'illiterate peasants' and we'll have affectively added millions to our jobless-and-incapable-of-self-support individuals. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
It has always been my position that they donít really want amnesty. I liken it to the slave plantation owners supporting the abolition of slavery. It simply makes no sense. Why would they want to lose their cheap labor? I believe they will continue to feign support for amnesty to appease the illegal alien sheeple and their equally duped supporters.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2008, 01:34 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,800,370 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Re: Minutemen. It makes the "pro-illegal" side look bad to imply that this is a racist or white supremecist group which only uses "token people of color" to hide this. It's yet another sad way to inject race into this whole debate, and further deviates us from working towards solutions. I might anger some people by saying this, but I think the biggest racists in this whole fight are the people who chant "go back to Europe" and insist that Mexicans with indigenous blood have a racial right to live in this country. There are some racists on both sides, but the above really gets my blood boiling.
I agree with you on that point, i'll also admit there are racists on both side of the issue. At least you are man enough to admit that, but some on the so called "anti-illegal" crowd would NEVER admit to having racists on their side of the issue.

Concerning the minuteman, why does the anti-illegal crowd insist that all hispanic advocacy groups are racist? They claim NLCR, MALDEF,Lulac are all racist groups.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2008, 02:33 PM
 
756 posts, read 1,665,311 times
Reputation: 275
McCain is an idiot. He would make Bush look like a genius.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2008, 02:50 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,638,049 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Concerning the minuteman, why does the anti-illegal crowd insist that all hispanic advocacy groups are racist? They claim NLCR, MALDEF,Lulac are all racist groups.
While I don't agree there's such thing as an anti-illegal "crowd"...any more than I'll agree there's a black, white, or Asian "community"..I will attempt to give you an answer for your (presumably) sincere question.

The reason Hispanic advocacy groups are 'looked at with suspicion', at least, of PROBABLY being racist, is simply because they ARE advocacy groups, and they're 'advocating' for a specific 'ethnicity'...or 'race'..or whatever it's called. The fact that Hispanics aren't truly a 'race' is beside the point...for the sake of advocacy groups, they're treated as a race...a 'distinct group', with separate interests, separate needs, (and, let's be honest here..some would even say 'special entitlements').

I realize there are groups like the Black Caucus, the Italian Catholic Federation, the Japanese-American citizen's League, The Sons of Norway, and similar groups. These are more-or-less tolerated as harmless and benevolent, mostly because they are not seen as advocating anything controversial or harmless to their fellow Americans. Hispanic groups, by and large, today, are SEEN as (and in fact, many ARE), advocating the continued presence of vast numbers of illegal immigrants, whose interests these groups favor over and above the interests of 'other' (non-Hispanic) Americans. THe only conclusion most of us can make is that this 'favoring' of the illegal over the 'legal' MUST be due to ethnic reasons...there's no other reasonable explanation.

It's for that reason, in these increasingly tumultuous times of vast illegal immigration, that those groups seen as publically favoring those OF THEIR OWN STATED ETHNICITY as they commit illegal acts, are seen by others as 'Racist" groups. While this may not be altogether accurate, it isn't hard to understand. IMHO, such an asumption is FAR easier to understand, that the equally common one that "anybody who speaks out against illegals, no matter what he says, MUST be a racist"...now THAT one REALLY mystifies me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2008, 04:23 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,800,370 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
While I don't agree there's such thing as an anti-illegal "crowd"...any more than I'll agree there's a black, white, or Asian "community"..I will attempt to give you an answer for your (presumably) sincere question.

The reason Hispanic advocacy groups are 'looked at with suspicion', at least, of PROBABLY being racist, is simply because they ARE advocacy groups, and they're 'advocating' for a specific 'ethnicity'...or 'race'..or whatever it's called. The fact that Hispanics aren't truly a 'race' is beside the point...for the sake of advocacy groups, they're treated as a race...a 'distinct group', with separate interests, separate needs, (and, let's be honest here..some would even say 'special entitlements').

I realize there are groups like the Black Caucus, the Italian Catholic Federation, the Japanese-American citizen's League, The Sons of Norway, and similar groups. These are more-or-less tolerated as harmless and benevolent, mostly because they are not seen as advocating anything controversial or harmless to their fellow Americans. Hispanic groups, by and large, today, are SEEN as (and in fact, many ARE), advocating the continued presence of vast numbers of illegal immigrants, whose interests these groups favor over and above the interests of 'other' (non-Hispanic) Americans. THe only conclusion most of us can make is that this 'favoring' of the illegal over the 'legal' MUST be due to ethnic reasons...there's no other reasonable explanation.

It's for that reason, in these increasingly tumultuous times of vast illegal immigration, that those groups seen as publically favoring those OF THEIR OWN STATED ETHNICITY as they commit illegal acts, are seen by others as 'Racist" groups. While this may not be altogether accurate, it isn't hard to understand. IMHO, such an asumption is FAR easier to understand, that the equally common one that "anybody who speaks out against illegals, no matter what he says, MUST be a racist"...now THAT one REALLY mystifies me.
Hmm, are you telling me that ONLY hispanic groups favor comprehensive immigration reform?
  • Quote:
    • <Business: American Health Care Association; American Hotel & Lodging Association; American Nursery & Landscape Association; International Franchise Association; National Council of Chain Restaurants; National Restaurant Association; and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
    Quote:
    • Labor: American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFL-CIO); Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees International Union; Laborers’ International Union of North America; Service Employees International Union; UNITE! (Union of Needletrades, Industrial and Textile Employees); United Farmworkers of America; and the United Food and Commercial Workers.
    • Religious: American Jewish Committee; Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service; and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
    • Ethnic: Hispanic Alliance for Progress; The Latino Coalition; League of United Latin American Citizens; Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund; and the National Council of La Raza.
    • Immigrant Advocacy: American Immigration Lattwyers Association and the National Immigration Forum.
National Immigration Forum -> Diverse Alliance Supports Comprehensive Immigration Reform (http://immigrationforum.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=581 - broken link)

What about the white house, congressmen and senators? Are they not all american also? What about the NAACP?

The problem with the anti-illegal crowd is that, you want EVERY one to hold the same stand on this issue as you do. When people see things differently than you do, you accuse them of being "un-american". Remember that not everyone will or should agree with you when it comes to immigration policy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2008, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,685,038 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Hmm, are you telling me that ONLY hispanic groups favor comprehensive immigration reform?
National Immigration Forum -> Diverse Alliance Supports Comprehensive Immigration Reform (http://immigrationforum.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=581 - broken link)

What about the white house, congressmen and senators? Are they not all american also? What about the NAACP?

The problem with the anti-illegal crowd is that, you want EVERY one to hold the same stand on this issue as you do. When people see things differently than you do, you accuse them of being "un-american". Remember that not everyone will or should agree with you when it comes to immigration policy.
blacknight04:

Face it: the pro illegal immigrant agenda is in tatters-------it is over for your side. All that are left to do are 'mop up' operations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top