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Old 04-15-2010, 11:22 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,704,899 times
Reputation: 3010

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Each group holds on to their culture in one way or the other, there is no law, nor should there be, in expressing one's native culture. If the US Consituton allows an American to have Dual citizenship, then Americans should be free to practice their native culture.
Sometimes I wonder if you even grasp the ironies contained in some of your posts.

Americans should be free to practice their native culture?

Do you mean naturalized Americans?

At what point do you draw the line--say when their so-called "right" to practice their "native" culture interferes with everyone else's right to do the same?

Female genital mutilation is practiced among many countries in Asia and Africa. It is a cultural norm--how do you feel about that? Want to adopt that little slice of cultural normality in your own home?

How about honor killings? Your daughter or wife embarrasses you or shames you? Just off her. Again, a cultural norm in other parts of the world.

How about the marriage (and consummation thereof) of a nine year old girl and a 30-something year old man? In most of the Western world, this person would be a child molester. In his own culture, he's the guy next door.

How about allowing your new neighbor to barbecue your children's puppy? Sure, he's a member of the family to you, but to your new neighbors, he's filet mignon.

What about the vehicle salvage operation the guy next door seems to be operating in his front yard? In his home country, nobody cared if he had six or seven vehicles in various states of disrepair laying around the front yard--why should he worry about your property values now?

You want to pigeonhole illegal immigration and all who oppose it into nice, tidy little categories of black and white, good or evil, racist or accepting. It ain't that easy and it certainly isn't that simple.

Take a few cultural anthropology classes at the local J.C. and learn how the attempt to meld vast cultural differences into singular civilizations has been the downfall of more than one--then perhaps you'll get it.

Until then, the rest of us will marvel at the incongruity of your paradoxical posts.

 
Old 04-15-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,958 posts, read 30,215,777 times
Reputation: 17765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Sometimes I wonder if you even grasp the ironies contained in some of your posts.

Americans should be free to practice their native culture?

Do you mean naturalized Americans?

At what point do you draw the line--say when their so-called "right" to practice their "native" culture interferes with everyone else's right to do the same?

Female genital mutilation is practiced among many countries in Asia and Africa. It is a cultural norm--how do you feel about that? Want to adopt that little slice of cultural normality in your own home?

How about honor killings? Your daughter or wife embarrasses you or shames you? Just off her. Again, a cultural norm in other parts of the world.

How about the marriage (and consummation thereof) of a nine year old girl and a 30-something year old man? In most of the Western world, this person would be a child molester. In his own culture, he's the guy next door.

How about allowing your new neighbor to barbecue your children's puppy? Sure, he's a member of the family to you, but to your new neighbors, he's filet mignon.

What about the vehicle salvage operation the guy next door seems to be operating in his front yard? In his home country, nobody cared if he had six or seven vehicles in various states of disrepair laying around the front yard--why should he worry about your property values now?

You want to pigeonhole illegal immigration and all who oppose it into nice, tidy little categories of black and white, good or evil, racist or accepting. It ain't that easy and it certainly isn't that simple.

Take a few cultural anthropology classes at the local J.C. and learn how the attempt to meld vast cultural differences into singular civilizations has been the downfall of more than one--then perhaps you'll get it.

Until then, the rest of us will marvel at the incongruity of your paradoxical posts.
I couldn't have said it better. I can't imagine liking someone then finding out I have to give her Father six goats and a cow before we date. Or worse, having to pass into manhood by piercing my chest with hooks and swinging from a vine or the like
 
Old 04-15-2010, 12:12 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,143,414 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Sometimes I wonder if you even grasp the ironies contained in some of your posts.

Americans should be free to practice their native culture?

Do you mean naturalized Americans?

At what point do you draw the line--say when their so-called "right" to practice their "native" culture interferes with everyone else's right to do the same?

Female genital mutilation is practiced among many countries in Asia and Africa. It is a cultural norm--how do you feel about that? Want to adopt that little slice of cultural normality in your own home?

How about honor killings? Your daughter or wife embarrasses you or shames you? Just off her. Again, a cultural norm in other parts of the world.

How about the marriage (and consummation thereof) of a nine year old girl and a 30-something year old man? In most of the Western world, this person would be a child molester. In his own culture, he's the guy next door.

How about allowing your new neighbor to barbecue your children's puppy? Sure, he's a member of the family to you, but to your new neighbors, he's filet mignon.

What about the vehicle salvage operation the guy next door seems to be operating in his front yard? In his home country, nobody cared if he had six or seven vehicles in various states of disrepair laying around the front yard--why should he worry about your property values now?

You want to pigeonhole illegal immigration and all who oppose it into nice, tidy little categories of black and white, good or evil, racist or accepting. It ain't that easy and it certainly isn't that simple.

Take a few cultural anthropology classes at the local J.C. and learn how the attempt to meld vast cultural differences into singular civilizations has been the downfall of more than one--then perhaps you'll get it.

Until then, the rest of us will marvel at the incongruity of your paradoxical posts.
Well, I'm limited in spreading the "love" but can publicly say "Thank You".
 
Old 04-15-2010, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Two things I like you to consider,
comming to a different country and trying to make it on the down-lo...how easy or smart is it to assimilate, if you have to be inconspicuos.

most first-generation are less educated and dont speak the language, but that is not passed down, thats left behind with the following generations.

Each group holds on to their culture in one way or the other, there is no law, nor should there be, in expressing one's native culture. If the US Consituton allows an American to have Dual citizenship, then Americans should be free to practice their native culture.
I am an American and I indeed practice my native culture---------as an American.
 
Old 04-15-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
I couldn't have said it better. I can't imagine liking someone then finding out I have to give her Father six goats and a cow before we date. Or worse, having to pass into manhood by piercing my chest with hooks and swinging from a vine or the like
No joke there: despite your Apache heritage; some of their cultural traits are indeed better off left in the past-------and my comment can be applied to all people since every ancestral culture had things that would not be acceptable in the USA today.
 
Old 04-15-2010, 03:10 PM
 
Location: The Queen City
1,087 posts, read 2,348,043 times
Reputation: 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Transplant View Post
The media has done a terrible job at explaining Hispanic (Latino) immigration. First they lump illegal and legal immigration together and confuse people with words like undocumented. Then they act like all Hispanics are exactly the same and assume that a Hispanic Immigrant from Buenos Aires who is half Spanish, and half Italian in his ancestry, is the same as a poor uneducated illegal alien who is one hundred percent Indian from Southern Mexico, who may not even speak Spanish.

This is the same as linking Tiger Woods with a dark skinned African Immigrant just off the plane from Nigeria.

Why is the media so ignorant about immigration and race?
It is not the media that is ignorant, it is the American public. If we go into details and try to explain to our anglo friends who we really are, they don't understand us. For them, if we speak Spanish, we all are the same. We know we are not. It is easier to lump every one together and treat us as a same group of people than to bother getting to know each individual Spanish speaking nation.
 
Old 04-15-2010, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLTKing View Post
It is not the media that is ignorant, it is the American public. If we go into details and try to explain to our anglo friends who we really are, they don't understand us. For them, if we speak Spanish, we all are the same. We know we are not. It is easier to lump every one together and treat us as a same group of people than to bother getting to know each individual Spanish speaking nation.
Quite a few Hispanics (of any race/ethnicity) do lump each other together where 'Anglos' are concerned.
 
Old 04-15-2010, 06:05 PM
 
898 posts, read 1,248,213 times
Reputation: 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Two things I like you to consider,
comming to a different country and trying to make it on the down-lo...how easy or smart is it to assimilate, if you have to be inconspicuos.

most first-generation are less educated and dont speak the language, but that is not passed down, thats left behind with the following generations.

Each group holds on to their culture in one way or the other, there is no law, nor should there be, in expressing one's native culture. If the US Consituton allows an American to have Dual citizenship, then Americans should be free to practice their native culture.
Not as much as you think. Look in areas like Westlake village (in L.A.) and you'll see generation after generation that still picks religion over sex education and has high teenage pregnancy in the area. Those teenage parents don't move out of the apartment they live in with their parents (and their five closest friends) and they rarely educate themselves past high school. Eventhough they are being educated in school and by the media about the benefits of using condoms in order to prevent teenage pregnancies they choose to ignore it. I think what needs to be understood is that adopting NEW habits will not destroy the good aspects of the culture that you brought with you.

Yes, keep the music, keep the language, keep the dress styles, keep the food (we all enjoy that one) but drop the co-dependence, the bad habit of dirtying up your home and the neighborhood it's in, the lack of communication between parents and children (especially when it comes to sex) and the discouragement of higher education, the racism (that's right, those little "indios" are just as racist as any other group of immigrants that comes here), the alcoholism and the encouragement of illegal activities on top of the one you've already committed by crossing the border without papers. It cracks me up that you're here to work, you pinch every penny and live 10 to a house to save on rent but you can't save money to pay a lawyer to get your papers started or to get papers if you should be deported. Instead you're spending it on cable tv, beer and parties. Oh, and learn the language! Learning English is not going to make you suddenly stop liking beans (I love beans) or Sabado Gigante.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Illegal alien Latinos don't feel the need to assimilate like most "legal" immigrants did in the past because of their large numbers as one group and the number of towns and neighborhoods that have become havens for them by like ethnic group. There are many Latinos that have been here for generations that still do not speak English. I know, I see it first hand at a senior center I go to. As for their kids all they hear is Spanish being spoken in the home. Yes, they do learn English eventually while attending our schools but Spanish remains their primary langauge.

Nothing wrong with retaining one's native language and culture at home just as long as out in mainstream America they adopt ours. That ain't happening.
It's happening. Just not like some people would hope. I've said it in other posts and I'll say it here: Assimilation is a two way street. Yes, immigrants will adopt the culture they migrate to but they will also contribute. Otherwise you wouldn't have such great "American" things like hot dogs (German), apple pie (Dutch), and now "Mexican" food (which is really Tex-Mex).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Sometimes I wonder if you even grasp the ironies contained in some of your posts.

Americans should be free to practice their native culture?

Do you mean naturalized Americans?

At what point do you draw the line--say when their so-called "right" to practice their "native" culture interferes with everyone else's right to do the same?

Female genital mutilation is practiced among many countries in Asia and Africa. It is a cultural norm--how do you feel about that? Want to adopt that little slice of cultural normality in your own home?

How about honor killings? Your daughter or wife embarrasses you or shames you? Just off her. Again, a cultural norm in other parts of the world.

How about the marriage (and consummation thereof) of a nine year old girl and a 30-something year old man? In most of the Western world, this person would be a child molester. In his own culture, he's the guy next door.

How about allowing your new neighbor to barbecue your children's puppy? Sure, he's a member of the family to you, but to your new neighbors, he's filet mignon.

What about the vehicle salvage operation the guy next door seems to be operating in his front yard? In his home country, nobody cared if he had six or seven vehicles in various states of disrepair laying around the front yard--why should he worry about your property values now?

You want to pigeonhole illegal immigration and all who oppose it into nice, tidy little categories of black and white, good or evil, racist or accepting. It ain't that easy and it certainly isn't that simple.

Take a few cultural anthropology classes at the local J.C. and learn how the attempt to meld vast cultural differences into singular civilizations has been the downfall of more than one--then perhaps you'll get it.

Until then, the rest of us will marvel at the incongruity of your paradoxical posts.
LOL at the unintended (or was it?) pun. Good points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLTKing View Post
It is not the media that is ignorant, it is the American public. If we go into details and try to explain to our anglo friends who we really are, they don't understand us. For them, if we speak Spanish, we all are the same. We know we are not. It is easier to lump every one together and treat us as a same group of people than to bother getting to know each individual Spanish speaking nation.
Quoted for truth. You don't know how many times I've heard, "What part of Mexico is that?" when I told people I'm from El Salvador.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Quite a few Hispanics (of any race/ethnicity) do lump each other together where 'Anglos' are concerned.
How do you mean?
 
Old 04-15-2010, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,696,242 times
Reputation: 3785
fatmancomics: many Hispanics; in particular Mestizos consider White Argentines, etc. as fellow Latinos whereas the inverse is not always true. Too; Black Latinos tend to be looked down upon by their lighter skinned (more Euro White lineage) analogs.

The color lines in Hispanic society are extremely complex-----------although money 'whitens'.
 
Old 04-15-2010, 07:47 PM
 
898 posts, read 1,248,213 times
Reputation: 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
fatmancomics: many Hispanics; in particular Mestizos consider White Argentines, etc. as fellow Latinos whereas the inverse is not always true. Too; Black Latinos tend to be looked down upon by their lighter skinned (more Euro White lineage) analogs.

The color lines in Hispanic society are extremely complex-----------although money 'whitens'.
Ah, no argument from me here. In fact, I'll even admit that most of us mestizos have a disdain for Argentines because they look down on us for being darker. Of course, I've been proven wrong by almost every Argentine I know but I met them here and not in Argentina. Spaniards, however, have been as rude to me on every occasion as Brittish people have and THEY look down on Argentines for having the gall to pretend to be European.

I also can't argue the fact that in most of our countries, the darker you are, the more contempt people have for you but that seems to be the case everywhere you go. Have you seen the ads in India for the cream that is supposed to lighten your skin? Hell, the original question and title of this thread proves that point.
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