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Old 08-13-2008, 03:50 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,470,148 times
Reputation: 5288

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
Of course I think we should kick them out-they are here illegally. Not only that but many of them have commited ID theft and fraud. Should we give those criminals citizenship? How about rapists and murderers? We already tried one amnesty and it failed miserably. To allow those that came here illegally and comitted ID frausd/theft and God knows what else to become citizens is only rewarding bad behavior and will encourage more illegals to come here.

American companies were leaving because of anti-American policies like NAFTA and free trade with China-not because wages were "too-high". Companies got greedy and wanted to make more and more profits. What company wouldn't leave if they could-with the blessing of the US governement bauil on America and hire cheap slave labor abroad?. While I have always been pro-business-this out of control greed and willingness to break the law or leave this country to make even MORE of a profit is disgusting. Companies made great profits for years without hiring illegals or outsourcing.

See this is where we start disconnecting, because you already have the belief that most of these people are bad and you use the 86 amnesty as some kind of chart of progress. Do you know if the people from the 86 amnesty did not turn into fine Americans?

You cannot argue globalism, it has already occurred. At this point in time, it is either get cheaper or build it better. Who is to know if those companies that hire illegals would still be around today? But that is where we also disconnect because the popular stance is to say "if we are that dependent on illegals, then we deserve to fall as a nation"... I don't think that is right.
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:54 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,470,148 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
$94 billion would be a BARGAIN. We lose a MINIMUM of $200 billion a year JUST in depressed wages...

American wages were too high?? Why, because a man could work a 40 hour week and be able to send his kids to college without having his wife work 40 hours too?

That's ridiculous...
Again I have supplied numerous times the idea of a Virtual Economy that the US was in. Economist argued in the 60's when we started driving wages with inflation (Cost-push) that at some point in time Americas economy would have to compete with 3rd world countries and wages would have to drop to compete.
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:57 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,172,225 times
Reputation: 2728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
See this where we start disconnecting, because you already have the belief that most of these people are bad and you use the 86 amnesty as some kind of chart of progress. Do you know if the people of from the 86 amnesty did not turn into fine Americans?

You cannot argue globalism, it has already occurred. At this point in time, it is either get cheaper or build it better. Who is to know if those companies that hire illegals would still be around today? But that is where we also disconnect because the popular stance is to say "if are that dependent on illegals, then we deserve to fall as a nation". I disagree!
I use the 1986 amnesty as an example because we were promised inside and outside and upside down that there would never be another amnesty or a need for amnesty. We were promised our borders would be secure, E-verify would be up and running and immigration laws would be fully enforced. These turned out to be all lies. The only thing accomplished then was amnesty for lawbreakers.

So people who break the law are "good"? Yes I consider people who break into this country or overstay a visa and then more than likely commit ID theft or fraud "bad". I make no apologies for that and I should not have to. They broke the law. There are enough people waiting in line and willing to wait a long time to legally come here. To me they would make better Americans than those that broke the law to come here.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,407 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Again I have supplied numerous times the idea of a Virtual Economy that the US was in. Economist argued in the 60's when we started driving wages with inflation (Cost-push) that at some point in time Americas economy would have to compete with 3rd world countries and wages would have to drop to compete.
And those economists are STILL arguing about it now.

Our economic engine was humming along nicely for half a century until...wait for it...here it comes... we gave corporations the right to lobby Congress!
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:02 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,470,148 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
I use the 1986 amnesty as an example because we were promised inside and outside and upside down that there would never be another amnesty or a need for amnesty. We were promised our borders would be secure, E-verify would be up and running and immigration laws would be fully enforced. These turned out to be all lies. The only thing accomplished then was amnesty for lawbreakers.

So people who break the law are "good"? Yes I consider people who break into this country or overstay a visa and then more than likely commit ID theft or fraud "bad". I make no apologies for that and I should not have to. They broke the law. There are enough people waiting in line and willing to wait a long time to legally come here. To me they would make better Americans than those that broke the law to come here.
Yes we were lied to, the system failed, never began...etc. Yes they broke the law. To me there are a lot worse folks we could spending time running down than a dishwasher at Applebees who took an SSN or is working under the table.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,407 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Yes we were lied to, the system failed, never began...etc. Yes they broke the law. To me there are a lot worse folks we could spending time running down than a dishwasher at Applebees who took an SSN or is working under the table.
I don't think you'd feel that way if washing dishes at Applebee's was YOUR job...
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:07 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,897,260 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Yes we were lied to and yes they broke some laws. To me there are a lot worse folks we could spending time running down than a dishwasher at Applebees who took an SSN or is working under the table.
While there may be varying degrees of criminal acts at the end of the day, everyone who is here illegally either started out that way or overstayed their visas. Doesn't change the fact that they are all criminals.

Again, putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact that underneath the lipstick it's still a pig.

O/T Hee, hee, once again, looks like you lost the gotcha game. You are so far behind the 8 ball save yourself from further embarrassment and stop stalking me.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/2008-...rn-both-2.html
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:07 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,470,148 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
I don't think you'd feel that way if washing dishes at Applebee's was YOUR job...
So you are saying that people really cannot find work? How come for years the unemployment rate did not budge when all the illegals were coming "stealing" jobs? Now we have all these laws in place, kicking illegals out and the unemployment rate is highest in a decade.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:09 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,172,225 times
Reputation: 2728
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
I don't think you'd feel that way if washing dishes at Applebee's was YOUR job...
Or if Mach's SSN was stolen and his financial history was ruined and cost thousands of dollars and years to fix.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,407 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
So you are saying that people really cannot find work? How come for years the unemployment rate did not budge when all the illegals were coming "stealing" jobs?
Because they changed the way they computed it and didn't count all those folks who quit looking, took part-time work, etc.
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