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Old 08-17-2008, 08:56 AM
 
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 7,929,045 times
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Geez where I grew up whites were already the minority.
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
White Americans won't become a minority by 2042 - white non-Hispanic Americans will become a minority by 2042. However, I predict that sometime by the 2040 census the government will begin to group white Hispanics with the majority. In other words, "white" will replace "white non-Hispanic" as the descriptive term of this country's majority. I highly doubt the US's population will be any less than 60-65% white by before 2042.
Very true.

Prior to 1970 'Hispanics' as a group were also counted as White unless they were clearly Indian or Black racially.
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:29 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,657,730 times
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Quote:
While you can find much admiration in Mexico for many things American, Mexican society as a whole does not respect the sovereignty of the United States of America - and it's ridiculous to expect it to. By "Mexican Society", I refer to the chattering classes (politicians, media, intellectuals) and also to the conventional wisdom on the street. Certainly, in conversations with individual Mexicans, I have heard sympathy for the American side of the problem and even bemusement that the gringos could allow themselves to be so abused by immigrants.
Quote:
The Mexican immigration system, unlike ours, is designed in the interests of the nation. It allows very few immigrants. Those permitted are selected to exclude the poor—only immigrants with marketable skills or financial independence are allowed.
Quote:
Mexico also understands the importance of national unity. It does not encourage immigrant ethnic power blocs. Although a Mexican congressional committee called California's referendum (http://www.fairus.org/html/9-11.htm - broken link)to abolish bilingual education "racist and discriminatory", Mexico itself does not offer bilingual education or native-language instruction to immigrants or their children. It's learn Spanish by the immersion method—sink or swim. (And it works, I had a Bulgarian student who in short order had learned Spanish without the aid of any Bulgarian-speaking instructors.)
What hypocrites

VDARE.com: 10/26/01 - THE EDUCATION OF A GRINGO IN MEXICO
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:54 AM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,272,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Transplant View Post
If you go down to Mexico City the first thing you will notice is the media only shows White People on News Shows and ads. But most people that you see on the street are very dark skinned Indians. They have as little in common with the elite Hispanic (Spanish) than our Whites have with a dark skinned gang member who follows the BET Stereotype.

Mexican Indians may be good people but they should not be called white in the census.
I realize this. This is why I specifically said that white Hispanics will be grouped with the white non-Hispanic majority in the near future.
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Old 08-17-2008, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I realize this. This is why I specifically said that white Hispanics will be grouped with the white non-Hispanic majority in the near future.
I have heard it said that the more affluent/educated Hispanics.........even those who are obviously Mestizo----------are more likely to claim 'White' if push comes to shove.

The 'Brown Pride' thing seems to be more of a lower class Chicano/Mexican phenomenom.
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Old 08-17-2008, 11:42 AM
 
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Precisely. Almost no one who is white or who looks more white than Amerindian is going to be pushing their little to non-existant Amerindian roots. Affirmative action, for all practical purposes, does not exist in Hispanophone Latin America (it exists to an extent in Brazil) and people really have nothing to gain by identifying with being "brown." I have said this many times and will say it again: the people who are most vocal about their "brown pride" are the Mexican-Americans, not Mexicans themselves.
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Old 08-17-2008, 01:47 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Precisely. Almost no one who is white or who looks more white than Amerindian is going to be pushing their little to non-existant Amerindian roots. Affirmative action, for all practical purposes, does not exist in Hispanophone Latin America (it exists to an extent in Brazil) and people really have nothing to gain by identifying with being "brown." I have said this many times and will say it again: the people who are most vocal about their "brown pride" are the Mexican-Americans, not Mexicans themselves.
Well put...I know a number of young Mexican-Americans who are 'browner' than their grandparents ever were ().... I ALSO distinctly remember the civil rights upheaval in the 60's....(and also the massive popularity of Alex Haley's mini-series "Roots"). In just a few months, many people who had always been "Spanish-American" suddenly became "Mexicans".....and, though we're not Hispanic, my own sister developed an ancestral accent not heard in OUR family since the days of our grandparents....AMAZING..!

As you say, "Mexican militancy" (along with many other forms of 'ethnic pride') is often the product of those who are comfortable in the fact of their American citizenship, and feel free to 'make waves'...welcome to the human race !
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Old 08-17-2008, 04:25 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,993,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Precisely. Almost no one who is white or who looks more white than Amerindian is going to be pushing their little to non-existant Amerindian roots. Affirmative action, for all practical purposes, does not exist in Hispanophone Latin America (it exists to an extent in Brazil) and people really have nothing to gain by identifying with being "brown." I have said this many times and will say it again: the people who are most vocal about their "brown pride" are the Mexican-Americans, not Mexicans themselves.
One of the few things we frequently disagree on. I feel that you are speaking as a self-proclaimed white Hispanic on the issue, which I'm sure affects your opinion on it.

I think people of Mexican descent living in the Southwest feel a lot differently about their roots. Maybe not in the past(pre 60s), but out here right now, a lot of people are proud of thier roots.
Maybe more well-off white Hispanics find "nothing to gain with identifying with being 'brown'", but the many Mestizo people in the Southwest take great pride in their mixed culture.

Its too bad that seems to offend you, but who are we to argue how people should identify themselves? Thats their own choice. Even if its just "a little" Indian blood, they have the right to identify with that little bit.

As far as the statement I bolded, that might be true in the more affluent areas in New York, Miami, etc, but its not really the case in places like the Southwest and Chicago. There are many people who look White that are as proud of their Indian roots as a full blooded Yaqui Indian.

Even on this forum, we have people who are White with part Native American blood, and they refer to themselves as Native American(for their argument most of the time.)



By the way, I'm not attacking you for your opinion, just giving my side of it
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Old 08-17-2008, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
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Running with both Crisp444 and amc760's ball here............

I knew a family who were culturally Anglo (Irish surname, Presbyterian, did not know what Mexican food was and spoke only English) but could very easily claim stereotypical Mestizo Mexican blood just by looking at the father as well as all of his kids. His mother was from Mexico and had a Spanish surname whereas his dad hailed from (probably Northern) Ireland. Unknown what his wife was; she looked Latina but may have been Italian or even English.

This was 30+ years outside of Wash DC.
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Old 08-17-2008, 07:01 PM
 
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Good response. Ethnic identity is up to the particular person in question. Anyone can ethnically identify with anything they want. I have no problem with someone who is 7/8 white and 1/8 Amerindian identifying as "Mexican-American" or "mestizo;" I just have a problem when that person distances himself from "white people" as if he is significantly racially different from them. I have a problem when such a person holds himself out to the world as being more racially similar to an Amerindian than to a European. Ethnicity is up to you, but race is not. Anyone with half a brain knows that you didn't walk out of the jungle in Chiapas if you are - and look - 7/8 white. I know a person who fits this description whose racial identity was beaten down pretty quickely in college by all the well-off white/whitish Hispanics from Latin America and Miami/suburban NYC. This person is now a dear friend of mine and understands well the difference between race and ethnicity. Honestly, I think he is more comfortable in his own skin nowadays than he ever was in San Antonio while surrounded by fairly white-looking Mexican-Americans who loved to proclaim their "brown" roots even among real Mexicans immigrants who had no idea why they would stress such a thing. We talked about this about 6 months ago and although he is a proud of his Latin American heritage and culture, he no longer goes around portraying himself as different from "white people" because his racial heritage most closely matched that of that same group. He will explain that he is part Amerindian but knows how silly it is to tell people that he's "Mexican" or "brown" in a racial context. He now has no problems with the fact that he is racially more white than brown and that this detracts absolutely NOTHING from has ethnic identity. It is really sad that some of his Texas buddies think that being "Mexican" is a racial identify and not an ethnic one. This is precisely why lots of people on this forum believe that there is a race-based argument in favor of illegal immigration: there really are a lot of Mexican-American out there who push the equivocated idea that this is about race when it is so clearly not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
One of the few things we frequently disagree on. I feel that you are speaking as a self-proclaimed white Hispanic on the issue, which I'm sure affects your opinion on it.

I think people of Mexican descent living in the Southwest feel a lot differently about their roots. Maybe not in the past(pre 60s), but out here right now, a lot of people are proud of thier roots.
Maybe more well-off white Hispanics find "nothing to gain with identifying with being 'brown'", but the many Mestizo people in the Southwest take great pride in their mixed culture.

Its too bad that seems to offend you, but who are we to argue how people should identify themselves? Thats their own choice. Even if its just "a little" Indian blood, they have the right to identify with that little bit.

As far as the statement I bolded, that might be true in the more affluent areas in New York, Miami, etc, but its not really the case in places like the Southwest and Chicago. There are many people who look White that are as proud of their Indian roots as a full blooded Yaqui Indian.

Even on this forum, we have people who are White with part Native American blood, and they refer to themselves as Native American(for their argument most of the time.)



By the way, I'm not attacking you for your opinion, just giving my side of it

Last edited by Marlin331; 08-17-2008 at 07:10 PM..
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