Tucson becomes Sanctuary City (ethics, immigrate, Spanish, American)

[Vicman]

It's ignorance of why it is illegal; they know that they are illegally in the US, but they don't understand why the law was created, nor do they understand the sociological ramifications.

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

Irrelevant: ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Let an American try that crap in Mexico.................

[majoun]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

And that 'outlaw' Joe keeps getting reelected here in Maricopa County.

Many highly corrupt politicians are very popular ; being from DC you should be aware of Marion Barry.

For that matter, if John Gotti had decided to run for mayor of NYC even with everything else known about him, he would have gotten a HUGE number of votes.

Maricopa County voters have a Louisiana-like attitude about Arpaio - they know he's corrupt as corrupt can be but they don't care if a politician is corrupt as long as they are percieved as effective. This is according to the Phoenicians I've talked to.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Vicman

It's ignorance of why it is illegal; they know that they are illegally in the US, but they don't understand why the law was created, nor do they understand the sociological ramifications.

And thus means? If they don't understand then we don't owe them an explanation. They have two choices:

Live in the shadows in fear
Move home

They have options. Sucking off the tax payer teat shouldn't be one of those options.

[Vicman]

It seems that when there are jobs they tend to chose the former, and when there are insufficient jobs they chose the latter. It all depends on the economic cycles.

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

And thus means? If they don't understand then we don't owe them an explanation. They have two choices:

Live in the shadows in fear
Move home

They have options. Sucking off the tax payer teat shouldn't be one of those options.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Vicman

It seems that when there are jobs they tend to chose the former, and when there are insufficient jobs they chose the latter. It all depends on the economic cycles.

We cannot leave stealing social services out of the equation. It' s costing us Billions a year.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by majoun

Many highly corrupt politicians are very popular ; being from DC you should be aware of Marion Barry.

For that matter, if John Gotti had decided to run for mayor of NYC even with everything else known about him, he would have gotten a HUGE number of votes.

Maricopa County voters have a Louisiana-like attitude about Arpaio - they know he's corrupt as corrupt can be but they don't care if a politician is corrupt as long as they are percieved as effective. This is according to the Phoenicians I've talked to.

Well; if it means making life a living hell for illegal aliens and their enablers----------I have no problem with a non racist analog to Leander Perez (of St Bernard Parish, La) from 50 years ago.

[andreabeth]

Originally Posted by Vicman

Tinman, that is not the case.

This article explains: Christie clarifies: 'Illegal' immigrants are in civil violation - Morristown Green - NJ.com

Illegally being in the United States is a civil law, and penalty is deportation
Illegally crossing the border is a criminal violation, but it is difficult to prosecute such cases unless one is caught red handed crossing the border. About 40-50% of illegal immigrants legally came to the U.S. but are now illegal (i.e. overstayed visas).

But I was also talking about morality, which is distinct from the law. It is possible to be law abiding and immoral, and vice versa. Also morality depends on what one's intention is and what one knows about his or her actions.

Illegal immigrants tend to have a lack of education; they don't understand economic systems. Try to go to Oaxaca, Michoacan, and El Salvador and ask potential illegal immigrants what their role would be, in detail, in the U.S. economy. They don't understand how X people lose their jobs if they take work in the U.S. They want their families to prosper. The people who absolutely understand how this works would be the people who hire them.

"I know the old excuse. If we would provide them an easy path to citizenship then they wouldn't have to commit all these crimes." - Why would the people who hire them want that? The illegal status is what makes illegal immigrants attractive to employers.

Let me be real blunt- if they are truly that, shall we say, 'intellectually unsophisticated' then there is no way they are ever going to be an asset for the US. They will simply continue to be a burden.

[Vicman]

That's part of the issue; in Geib's essay he said:Propositions 209 and 187 and a Public School Teacher

I had serious doubts about the massive immigration of millions of so many poor and uneducated Mexicans and Central Americans to an Information Age United States which no longer had massive needs for unskilled labor as in the past. I never did visit a neighborhood in Southern California which had large numbers of immigrants that did not have serious quality of life issues such as gangs, serious poverty, low levels of education, teenage pregnancy, etc. ad nauseam.

It was more of a social than racial concern for me, as I had been to many areas populated by native-born Americans suffering the same problems as immigrant neighborhoods and knew many highly educated Mexicans and South Americans who could have stepped into American culture with hardly any problems (they stayed in their own countries). As the United States was no longer a young and dynamically growing country, I wondered about the ability of the country to adopt millions and millions of poor people successfully as had more or less occurred in the past. I wondered if the neighborhoods which had become immigrant havens would be violent and poverty stricken forever. I could see the good the immigrants brought to America, but I could also see the bad.

Originally Posted by andreabeth

Let me be real blunt- if they are truly that, shall we say, 'intellectually unsophisticated' then there is no way they are ever going to be an asset for the US. They will simply continue to be a burden.

[tinman01]

Originally Posted by majoun

Many highly corrupt politicians are very popular ; being from DC you should be aware of Marion Barry.

For that matter, if John Gotti had decided to run for mayor of NYC even with everything else known about him, he would have gotten a HUGE number of votes.

Maricopa County voters have a Louisiana-like attitude about Arpaio - they know he's corrupt as corrupt can be but they don't care if a politician is corrupt as long as they are percieved as effective. This is according to the Phoenicians I've talked to.

Do you have proof of his corruption? Links to support your statement?
You compare Appaio to A known drug user and criminal and to a know mob boss. Please support your claims.

[tinman01]

Originally Posted by Vicman

It's ignorance of why it is illegal; they know that they are illegally in the US, but they don't understand why the law was created, nor do they understand the sociological ramifications.

Ignorance? When their own country has even more strict regulations and penalties?
They know that it is illegal, they know why it is illegal. They simply do not care either way.
There are many laws to which I can not comprehend why it is a law. I obey none the less. Knowing its illegal is enough for the majority of honest people.