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Old 08-19-2008, 07:39 AM
 
349 posts, read 574,031 times
Reputation: 148

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Political Junky View Post
Of course there is no benefit at all to our country with a union with Mexico. Mexico wants it because they want what we have. They are not willing to develop their country into what it could be because then they might have to give the Mestizos and Indians some real rights and freedoms.
To a point, I agree that the corrupt Mexican government is to blame, because, despite all of their resources, most of the mixed raced people there live in poverty and, as you say, without true civil rights. But I think it is much more than that. It is the multinational corporations that would truly benefit from this, and none of the peoples.

That is why I wish the anger would be directed towards them and our compliant gobments, instead of the immigrants. They are pawns in this too.
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,283 posts, read 49,847,621 times
Reputation: 67136
I don't know...pawns? Maybe they are being misled. But I don't think they are coming here for the reasons people think they are.

I spent some time living and working in rural Mexico. I was asked repeatedly for help coming over here so that people could partake of the "free cars, free houses, free food/health care." There is an unfortunate impression the villagers have over there.
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:03 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,694,322 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
I don't know...pawns? Maybe they are being misled. But I don't think they are coming here for the reasons people think they are.

I spent some time living and working in rural Mexico. I was asked repeatedly for help coming over here so that people could partake of the "free cars, free houses, free food/health care." There is an unfortunate impression the villagers have over there.
I guess once they get over here, they figure that three out of four ain't bad....
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:25 AM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,178,694 times
Reputation: 2728
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
You may think it's 'hysteria', but what it actually is is an over-riding concern for the sovereignty of our nation. If you don't think that's possible look at what the EU has done to the sovereignty of IT'S nation-states...
Absolutely!
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,646,709 times
Reputation: 3785
Let me throw in two things about the EU in its defence:

#1: European countries are teeny compared to the USA so pooling their collective resourses, etc. is smart IMHO. Too, when you have 30+ different regulations for something as basic as safety features on cars/trucks----------that is asinine to be polite.

#2: before any nation can join the EU: they need to get their socio-economic house in orpder prior receiving the goodies. Mexico certainly would not qualify for EU membership whereas the USA and Canada would--------------assuming that all three nations were part of Europe. Besides: aside from Russian and Turkey; those European nations still outside of the EU are tiny........Serbia is one (size of Iowa or smaller plus relatively few people).
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:59 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 65,324,631 times
Reputation: 22274
Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
Oh I see, so all of the spanish speaking people in this country are illegal, how STUPID of me Quite a biased assumption there, don't ya think?
Well, based on my personal experience . . . people from Europe or from South American countries . . . are typically at least somewhat bilingual. Just as i would need to be at least somewhat comfortable w/ French/German to live in Switzerland, France or Germany . . . why would someone come to work here or immigrate here if they did not have at least a working knowledge of our language? First of all, employers are not going to give them a job (thus, allowing them to get a VISA) if they can't communicate w/ staff once here. In my city, we have a lot of Germans, for ex., living and working here, and they speak very fluent English.

And actually - many South Americans speak Portuguese, not Spanish.

So truly . . . the only people I know of personally who are here and totally clueless about English are illegals. And I honestly wonder how anyone could get here (legally) if they didn't have at least a working knowledge of English. Plus, people getting VISAs to come here are educated people, and they would have taken classes in English, just as I have taken 7 years of Spanish to get through high school and college requirements.
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,217,823 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Well, based on my personal experience . . . people from Europe or from South American countries . . . are typically at least somewhat bilingual. Just as i would need to be at least somewhat comfortable w/ French/German to live in Switzerland, France or Germany . . . why would someone come to work here or immigrate here if they did not have at least a working knowledge of our language? First of all, employers are not going to give them a job (thus, allowing them to get a VISA) if they can't communicate w/ staff once here. In my city, we have a lot of Germans, for ex., living and working here, and they speak very fluent English.

And actually - many South Americans speak Portuguese, not Spanish.

So truly . . . the only people I know of personally who are here and totally clueless about English are illegals. And I honestly wonder how anyone could get here (legally) if they didn't have at least a working knowledge of English. Plus, people getting VISAs to come here are educated people, and they would have taken classes in English, just as I have taken 7 years of Spanish to get through high school and college requirements.
good point.
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,217,823 times
Reputation: 4611
[quote=gortamor;4912959]To a point, I agree that the corrupt Mexican government is to blame, because, despite all of their resources, most of the mixed raced people there live in poverty and, as you say, without true civil rights. But I think it is much more than that. It is the multinational corporations that would truly benefit from this, and none of the peoples.

Quote:
That is why I wish the anger would be directed towards them and our compliant gobments, instead of the immigrants. They are pawns in this too.[/
QUOTE]

I know that most of them play stupid, but after all of the MSM, Rallies ,protest etc, you can't tell me that they're not aware of what they're getting into. If they're that blind to the laws they're breaking, then why are the "sneaking" over here and then hiding in the shadows?
They're not innocent by a long shot.
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:56 AM
 
349 posts, read 574,031 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
I know that most of them play stupid, but after all of the MSM, Rallies ,protest etc, you can't tell me that they're not aware of what they're getting into. If they're that blind to the laws they're breaking, then why are the "sneaking" over here and then hiding in the shadows?
They're not innocent by a long shot.
Still, if the gobment and those behind the throne, wanted to stop this, they could do so. And you would think, with all the homeland security hysteria about Al Queda and terrorist cells, that they would somehow find a way to secure the border. You would think it would have been one of their first priorities.

But the truth is, big business exerts enormous pressure in politics, via legalised bribery, oops that's donations and soft money, and it is in their interest to keep the cheap labour flowing and in their interest to have our anger directed at the immigrants, rather than at themselves.

If you really want to stop illegal immigration, contact your representative and tell them to push for heavy fines and punishments for the corporations that hire and use these people.
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:20 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,624,231 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
I could see a union between Canada and the US. I can think of no benefit at all to either the US or Canada entering into a union with Mexico. It is not difficult to deduce who would be the winner in such a scenario (Mexico can dump all it's poor and undeucated on the US and Canada- hooray!) and who would be the losers (the US and Canada).
Anytime you enter into any kind of deal you have to stop and ask yourself, "What's in it for me?". If this deal offers no benefits at all to you or the benefits are outweighed by the negative consequences then it is not a good idea to go ahead with the arrangement. I can think of no way that a union that obliterates the borders between the US and Mexico would be anything other than an unmitigated disaster.
While I certainly agree with what you're saying, if you stop and consider that the "you" in 'what's in it for me'? is a typical contemporary American businessman...who views himself as a 'citizen of the world', and who sees his US 'headquarters' in terms of only a 'flag of convenience' as he pursues his aims throughout the world...then, unfortunately, it may be that there are a LOT of advantages in the NAU for "us"...(the "us" of American big business...epitomized in many ways by the current administration).

If you take the position of "what's good for America is good for big business (and, coincidentally, it also happens to be good for ME"), then I can see a temptation to go for the 'lean, mean, hungry' work force....willing, compliant, and docile. These people are found today mostly in poor third-world countries. What better business decision could there be than to open the doors to the free movement of 'hungry' workers from which the employer can 'pick and choose'?

To call this 'shortsighted' is an understatement. You wonder, 'don't these businessmen have kids and grandkids...and won't THEY have to inherit the society we're now creating'? Of course!...but this wouldn't be the first selfish business decision ever made, for short-term temporary gain at the expense of the general public.

American business has a history of pretty much doing what they can 'get away with', until such time as 'we' (the people) step in and enact legislation to stop them. So far, I see the NAU as just one more attempt by big business to 'get away' with something....and so far, the rest of us haven't 'stepped in' to do anything about it.

The long-term effect of any 'NAU'-type move would be to decimate or destroy the middle class. BAD news if you're a middle-class American..or Canadian. (Not so bad for Mexico, as it doesn't have much ofr a middle class.) But for "big business", it's a dream come true....The 'movers and shakers' of big business are NOT 'middle class'. And for the poor of Mexico, almost ANYTHING is worth a try. So the NAU will be a GOOD thing, or a BAD thing, depending on who you are.. (hint..for ME, it will be BAD).
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