U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-22-2008, 06:30 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,900,435 times
Reputation: 1094

Advertisements

For example, what if a single male illegal immigrant with very low earnings, currently 23- years-old, is granted amnesty and later retires? The SSA found that such an alien will receive (on average and at today’s value) more than $46,426 in retirement benefits. What about a similar female illegal immigrant? According to the SSA, she will receive $52,253 in retirement benefits. A married illegal-immigrant couple where only one spouse works? $83,290. And what about a married couple where both spouses work? There would be a loss of $101,184.

Legalizing illegal immigrants imposes a significant drain on Social Security. What if 5 million illegal-immigrant couples who both work with very low earnings receive amnesty? The total negative impact on Social Security would be over $500 billion. This is a serious financial blow to our retirements and those of our children.

The numbers that the SSA ran can be applied not only to typical illegal immigrants, but also to any low-wage worker. This is an important distinction, since many immigration advocates propose that Congress greatly increase the number of low-skilled workers allowed to come to the United States.

http://oneoldvet.com/?p=7812 (broken link)

Well finally, the truth prevails. Of course those of us who have been in this fight for a while recognized long ago they are a zero sum negative to our economy, social services and all things American. All of the chicken little rantings about the sky falling if we don't amnesty in millions of poverty stricken peasants have proven to be the rantings of a bunch of OBL mad men/women.

Now that statistical data confirms what many of us have known all along, can we get on with the massive raids, deportations and build the damn wall post haste?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-22-2008, 09:35 AM
 
638 posts, read 1,638,611 times
Reputation: 217
Social Security has an inevitable insolvency . . as I'm sure this documentary will discuss. It won't be in theatres near me, but I'd recommend seeing it if you can.

I.O.U.S.A.
I.O.U.S.A. (2008) - Movie Info - Yahoo! Movies
Sign up to learn more about I.O.U.S.A.

Review (not kind)
In 'I.O.U.S.A.,' A Deficit of Originality - washingtonpost.com

IMO: The financial meltdown of the USA has a few visible horizons. 9+ trillion national debt and counting. Print more money. Devalue the dollar. Add inflation. Add more debt. Print more money. So yeah . . social security insolvency is very relevant.

Illegal aliens are part of the debt problems in this country. To those "life without a Mexican" propagandists, the facts are not in their favor. They have to "cook the books" to skew their position into believability. We are financially better off without them, and calling them economic parasites is an apt description, especially where social services are concerned.

I'm no expert, but I crunched the numbers based on a few States who released their's a few years ago, and calc'd an estimate that illegal aliens cost the country approximately $250,000,000,000 per year, which at the time, was more than the total cost of the war in Iraq. That other thread stating "all" immigration costs us $350 billion per year, supports my layman's view.

Bad math.

"In economics, the pessimist is ultimately correct."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2008, 09:43 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,900,435 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by r601020 View Post
Social Security has an inevitable insolvency . . as I'm sure this documentary will discuss. It won't be in theatres near me, but I'd recommend seeing it if you can.

I.O.U.S.A.
I.O.U.S.A. (2008) - Movie Info - Yahoo! Movies
Sign up to learn more about I.O.U.S.A.

Review (not kind)
In 'I.O.U.S.A.,' A Deficit of Originality - washingtonpost.com

IMO: The financial meltdown of the USA has a few visible horizons. 9+ trillion national debt and counting. Print more money. Devalue the dollar. Add inflation. Add more debt. Print more money. So yeah . . social security insolvency is very relevant.

Illegal aliens are part of the debt problems in this country. To those "life without a Mexican" propagandists, the facts are not in their favor. They have to "cook the books" to skew their position into believability. We are financially better off without them, and calling them economic parasites is an apt description, especially where social services are concerned.

I'm no expert, but I crunched the numbers based on a few States who released their's a few years ago, and calc'd an estimate that illegal aliens cost the country approximately $250,000,000,000 per year, which at the time, was more than the total cost of the war in Iraq. That other thread stating "all" immigration costs us $350 billion per year, supports my layman's view.

Bad math.

"In economics, the pessimist is ultimately correct."
Excellent post and thanks for the links. It is my honor to rep you!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2008, 11:38 AM
 
638 posts, read 1,638,611 times
Reputation: 217
It's not sexy, but this website is more accurate than my layman's calculations. But uses the same English I speak : "economic collapse" and "it's not rocket science".

Bad math.

EXCESSIVE* DEBT* and* MONEY

A bit worded, but worth browsing for understanding the problem : "all pyramid monetary schemes are mathematically doomed to collapse".

Author :
Welcome to Friends Of the Article V Convention: Personal profile: Daniel Summars
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2008, 11:39 AM
 
638 posts, read 1,638,611 times
Reputation: 217
Implodometer

The Mortgage Lender Implode-O-Meter - tracking the housing finance breakdown, related to Alt-A and subprime mortgages, lending fraud, predatory lending, housing bubble, mortgage banking, foreclosures, debt, consolidation, lawyers, class-action lawsui


I need a Dakota Indian to verify authenticity of this as Tribal Wisdom, any takers?

"When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount."

Last edited by r601020; 08-22-2008 at 11:54 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2008, 12:01 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 852,912 times
Reputation: 76
I thought the illegals who used fradulent SS#'s contributed to SS with out taking out? If this is the case then how will this kill SS? You know for a fact it is not illegal immigrants who are killing SS, when its the Government who's kiling it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2008, 12:44 PM
 
638 posts, read 1,638,611 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
I thought the illegals who used fradulent SS#'s contributed to SS with out taking out? If this is the case then how will this kill SS?
Importing low skilled and low paid workers into the country is a detriment to the economy regardless, but ultimately, this serves as an additional warning regarding amnesty when looking at social security.

"According to the SSA, the total contributions of a single male with very low earnings will fall $15,596 short of the value of the Social Security retirement benefits they will eventually receive (on average and at today’s value). A single female will receive $20,936 more in benefits than she generates in taxes. An immigrant couple with a sole wage-earner will eventually drain Social Security by $52,460; if the immigrant is married to another very low earner, the net drain on Social Security will be $39,037. In fact, for every million one immigrant couples where one works for very low earnings and one does not work, Social Security will eventually suffer a net loss of over $52 billion. If both spouses have very low earnings, the blow to Social Security will be over $39 billion. So, low-income immigrants cause a dramatic drain on Social Security.

Clearly, the increased migration of low-skilled immigrants is not a formula for the success of Social Security. It is a formula for the failure of America’s retirement system."
-- Rep. Lamar Smith, Texas Republican, is the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee.
http://oneoldvet.com/?p=7812 (broken link)

Hmm . .

$52 billion shortfall (for every 1 million illegal aliens in this scenario) x 20 million illegal aliens granted amnesty, potentially causing a social security shortfall of
$1,040,000,000,000,000,000.00

$39 billion shortfall (for every 1 million illegal aliens in other scenario) x 20 million illegal aliens granted amnesty, potentially causing a social security shortfall of
$780,000,000,000,000,000.00

Rework that with 10 million, or 5 million, it's still not good math. He was being conservative by using 1 million.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2008, 12:47 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 852,912 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by r601020 View Post
Importing low skilled and low paid workers into the country is a detriment to the economy regardless, but ultimately, this serves as an additional warning regarding amnesty when looking at social security.

"According to the SSA, the total contributions of a single male with very low earnings will fall $15,596 short of the value of the Social Security retirement benefits they will eventually receive (on average and at today’s value). A single female will receive $20,936 more in benefits than she generates in taxes. An immigrant couple with a sole wage-earner will eventually drain Social Security by $52,460; if the immigrant is married to another very low earner, the net drain on Social Security will be $39,037. In fact, for every million one immigrant couples where one works for very low earnings and one does not work, Social Security will eventually suffer a net loss of over $52 billion. If both spouses have very low earnings, the blow to Social Security will be over $39 billion. So, low-income immigrants cause a dramatic drain on Social Security.

Clearly, the increased migration of low-skilled immigrants is not a formula for the success of Social Security. It is a formula for the failure of America’s retirement system."
-- Rep. Lamar Smith, Texas Republican, is the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee.
http://oneoldvet.com/?p=7812 (broken link)

Hmm . .

$52 billion shortfall (for every 1 million illegal aliens in this scenario) x 20 million illegal aliens granted amnesty, potentially causing a social security shortfall of
$1,040,000,000,000,000,000.00

$39 billion shortfall (for every 1 million illegal aliens in other scenario) x 20 million illegal aliens granted amnesty, potentially causing a social security shortfall of
$780,000,000,000,000,000.00

Rework that with 10 million, or 5 million, it's still not good math. He was being conservative by using 1 million.
I fail to see how people with "made up" SS#'s will get money. And I fail to see how people with fraudulent SS#'s will recieve money if their current SS#'s is not even under their name.

"Make out a check to Juan Perez instead of William Johnson." ?????
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2008, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,175,450 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
I fail to see how people with "made up" SS#'s will get money. And I fail to see how people with fraudulent SS#'s will recieve money if their current SS#'s is not even under their name.

"Make out a check to Juan Perez instead of William Johnson." ?????
That's the thing you're not getting, Californio. Amnesty begets legal status for all those previously illegal and unable to access the SocSec monies. Regardless of how little they paid in they'll be entitled to minimum benefits when they reach 62 1/2 years of age. That is what will bankrupt the system, along with that stupid Social Security Totalization Agreement.

Center for Immigration Studies
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2008, 01:01 PM
 
638 posts, read 1,638,611 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
. . its the Government who's kiling it.
Nah!

Government Borrowing from Your Social Security Contributions :: Committee on Oversight and Government Reform :: United States House of Representatives (http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=847 - broken link)

Okay, maybe . .

"This year, 2008, is the year in which the first of the approximately 80 million baby boomers—those born between 1946 and 1964—become eligible to draw Social Security benefits. Scheduled Social Security and Medicare benefits together with other federal programs’ projected long-term cost are much greater than the resources (revenue and borrowings) available to pay for them. Unless action is taken to bring program cost in line with available resources, the coming surge of entitlement spending will end in a fiscal train wreck that will have an adverse effect on the U.S.economy and on virtually every American."
-- A Citizen’s Guide to the 2007 Financial Report of the U.S. Government by Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, 110th Congress
http://governmentmanagement.oversight.house.gov/documents/20080605180706.pdf (broken link)

Committe on Oversight and Government Reform
United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hard to take these people seriously, only boring people use words like "fiscal train wreck".

Last edited by r601020; 08-22-2008 at 01:12 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top