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Old 08-22-2008, 10:37 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Only after you ask the ancestors of the people your people stole their land from
You mean my other ancestor? My ancestor stole my other ancestors land, so it kinda works out for me.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:23 AM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,273,527 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
So in other words, WE should assimulate instead of visa-versa?
I'm not talking about cultural assimilation and I'm not talking about illegal immigration at all. I admit that this topic is a tangential discussion and I'm just talking about how we should adopt a more European form of built environment in order to better cope with rising energy/gas prices and diminishing natural resources.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:26 AM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,273,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Why should we allow millions more into the US each year?
I never said that we should allow millions more into the US each year; I merely said that we have room for millions more - I was implying that over several years our population could easily increase by millions without much trouble because the continental United States is barely five percent developed. This country is so massive that we physically have the space for millions more, and preferably through legal immigration and natural birth.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:36 AM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,273,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
I can see no reason at all as to why Americans (who voluntarily chose to limit the size of our families decades ago) should have to live in 600 sq. ft. apartments in some city in order to 'make room' for tens of millions more Third Worlders.
This isn't what I'm saying at all. I admit that this is a tangential discussion and that when I speak about how we should move toward a more European built environment for reasons of sustainability, the reason why has little to do with illegal immigration. Places like suburban Atlanta are an urban planner's NIGHTMARE due to the endless sprawl, few public transportation options (that are only a viable method of transportation for a small amount of people in that metro area), and general attitude of "My middle class salary deserves a large, detached house and a couple SUV's" that prevails in the area. The traditional suburban sprawl American dream is running out of steam and it is up to us as Americans to reengineer our built environment to better cope with quickly escalating energy/gas prices and global warming. Places like metro Portland (OR) are doing just this through implementation of urban growth boundaries, incentives for increased public transportation both between suburbs and city and between suburbs themselves, and regulations that make it more cost prohibitive (to developers, then passed to consumers) to build sprawling communities. This is our problem as Americans, and it has almost nothing to do with illegal immigration.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
This isn't what I'm saying at all. I admit that this is a tangential discussion and that when I speak about how we should move toward a more European built environment for reasons of sustainability, the reason why has little to do with illegal immigration. Places like suburban Atlanta are an urban planner's NIGHTMARE due to the endless sprawl, few public transportation options (that are only a viable method of transportation for a small amount of people in that metro area), and general attitude of "My middle class salary deserves a large, detached house and a couple SUV's" that prevails in the area. The traditional suburban sprawl American dream is running out of steam and it is up to us as Americans to reengineer our built environment to better cope with quickly escalating energy/gas prices and global warming. Places like metro Portland (OR) are doing just this through implementation of urban growth boundaries, incentives for increased public transportation both between suburbs and city and between suburbs themselves, and regulations that make it more cost prohibitive (to developers, then passed to consumers) to build sprawling communities. This is our problem as Americans, and it has almost nothing to do with illegal immigration.
Portland has many problems as well: high cost of living, very high property taxes, low wages, etc.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:49 AM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,273,527 times
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Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Portland has many problems as well: high cost of living, very high property taxes, low wages, etc.
Well, the "I want my big house, several cars, and a yard" party for the middle class cannot continue forever. People can choose to live however they want but they should have to pay for it if their lifestyle is environmentally hostile and wasteful. Prices in places like suburban Portland, Miami, and Boston are more reflective of what (**in my opinion**) it should cost to live like that. Prices in places like suburban Atlanta are so low that they do no reflect the true costs of maintaing that huge energy footprint (electricity/water use, gas costs, CO2 emissions, etc.) The middle class in thse expensive places is just as affluent, they just are learning that they don't need all the extra space (and to a lesser extent, cars) to live a comfortable lifestyle.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:58 AM
 
Location: US
3,072 posts, read 3,335,346 times
Reputation: 1620
Just because we have room for millions of illegal immigrants from Mexico does not mean we can afford them. Did you read the message on CD from the young man who went to Mexico to help the people develop their lives there? All they were interested in was how he could help them get over the border to get free housing, free medical care, free food. Do you consider counting the cost at all? Are you one of those who think we should just shove 'em all in here and figure it out when they're given amnesty? Is that how you run your finances? Or are you one of those who think we should give them back the southwestern states? If we did, do you think they would stop at those borders? They still wouldn't be able to support themselves.

Did you read a message on CD from someone in California who candidly talked about the reason for the financial problems in California? Do you even care? It's a fact that your main goal/ideal is to get as many illegal immigrants into America as possible. The problem is, you have never said why. Because they deserve it? Because you are looking forward to the day when Mexicans will be the dominate race here? Because you think America can afford it? Because you think it's time for whitey to be put in his/her place? Be honest. Are you looking forward to the day when all these anchor babies will grow up and get a [free] college education and run the country? Will you benefit in some way from that?

Do you think America's finances will be able to survive that long? What about the people who live here now and have worked hard all their lives to support this country? Are they just out? What if they need help? Too bad so sad? Do you think for one minute illegal immigrants who were given amnesty would work to support another race as Americans are doing for them?

Are you one of the ones who are okay with all the hospitals closing down due to the [free] medical care being given to illegal immigrants? After all, those who lose their jobs can just go get another job. Have you ever lost a job due to a business closing? Oh, wait, you've never had a job where your family is counting your paycheck and have to come home to tell them what has happened.

Did you see the video on CD of the young illegal immigrant woman from Mexico laying in an American hospital bed after giving birth [for free] to a baby that she can't at all understand why Americans are upset about letting them into America for free medical care? Do you agree with that statement?

Of course you can't answer these questions because you, along with the politicians and groups who seek to exploit immigrants, have a personal agenda. As one of the senior partners in our firm told a staunch young Democrat employee who, after getting past his ridiculous rhetoric about how Mexicans deserve our benefits, etc., etc., admitted he unapologetically supports amnesty solely to increase the voter base, "you just haven't worked in the real world long enough."

Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I never said that we should allow millions more into the US each year; I merely said that we have room for millions more - I was implying that over several years our population could easily increase by millions without much trouble because the continental United States is barely five percent developed. This country is so massive that we physically have the space for millions more, and preferably through legal immigration and natural birth.

Last edited by carolac; 08-23-2008 at 11:07 AM..
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Old 08-23-2008, 11:08 AM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,273,527 times
Reputation: 1675
First, you need to re-read the post (that I made) to which you responded. I dare you to find anything in it that suggests that we should let in millions of illegal immigrants because we have the space for it. In fact, I specifically mentioned that our growth should be through legal immigration and through natural births. Second, you need to go through my post history and read the posts that I have made on this forum because you have missed the mark completely regarding what my point of view in this debate actually is. You're the one accusing me of heinous things like having an ethnic or even racial "pro-illegal" agenda, so the burden is on you to go through my post history and back up your claims with statements that I have made that suggest this. I have more experience in the "real world" than you believe or even care to know.
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Old 08-23-2008, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
455 posts, read 758,333 times
Reputation: 335
Lou Dobbs is one of the few adressing this issue. Others are too afraid of offending people. I don't care how large the country is. Overpopulation is a major issue that needs to be dealt with.
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Old 08-23-2008, 11:40 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,033,451 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
You mean my other ancestor? My ancestor stole my other ancestors land, so it kinda works out for me.
Actually, all of your ancestors stole land from someone. The only difference is that in one case the land grabbers looked different then the ones the stole from, and in the other the looked the same. They very probably even spoke the same if not similiar language. But stealing is stealing, war is war and atrocities are atrocities. It shouldn't just count when the two parties look different.
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