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Old 08-23-2008, 01:17 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 855,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I do not support them because I personally think that it is too expensive, time-consuming, and difficult to immigrate to this country. I have known educated and well-off people from Europe and Latin America who have gone through hell trying to do things the right (LEGAL) way. Things need to be changed so that we can wash our hands of this mess and start all over again. THEN we pull out the big guns and enforce the rules stringently.
I hate to be the one to say it, but I think we need to cut off all permanent immigration to the United states whether it be legal or illegal. Right now, as a young nation of some 200+ years, we're already at 300 million people. Temporary immigration is fine (for work purposes).
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:23 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,297,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
If you are concerned about our natural resource depletion, why should our population grow at all? There is no law anywhere that says a country's population has to keep increasing year after year, decade after decade. Why should we have growth at all? Do you think we need more than 300 millions people? If so, why?
I think that growth is healthy. New York City has well over 8 million people and keeps growing; it is said that soon we will hit the 9 million mark and things here are better than ever. Growth is generally a good thing for our economy; almost no one wants stagnance. It's just my personal opinion and you are entitled to yours. Regarding depeletion of resources, we need to get our act together and 1) change our built environment / cut down on sprawl and 2) start using renewable energy sources. Once we do get our act together in this respect, we will have the capacity to grow for generations to come.
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Then we were gipped, and that is unfortunate. I will not support amnesty unless the new standards are enforced and if I believe that they will not be enforced then I will not support amnesty. I truly hope that we won't go the way of 1986 and that this time we will do things right.
Unfortunately, we won’t know if the laws will be enforced until AFTER millions of illegal aliens have already been granted amnesty. Fool me twice……
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:25 PM
 
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Amnesty won't work if there are no enforced borders >.<'
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:27 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,297,452 times
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Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Amnesty won't work if there are no enforced borders >.<'
That is precisely why I specified that I will not support amnesty UNLESS borders are strongly secured and the new laws are actually enforced.
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
I hate to be the one to say it, but I think we need to cut off all permanent immigration to the United states whether it be legal or illegal. Right now, as a young nation of some 200+ years, we're already at 300 million people. Temporary immigration is fine (for work purposes).
If you are indeed serious, I must concur. Now, what should we do with the 30 million illegals currently here?
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
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Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
That is precisely why I specified that I will not support amnesty UNLESS borders are strongly secured and the new laws are actually enforced.
The borders remain wide open to this day. When do you think they will actually close them, and by what means?
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:31 PM
 
Location: US
3,082 posts, read 3,346,314 times
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I had not thought of this, but I think you are correct. Positive rep to you. Can you imagine how other countries would react if we cut off the freebies? There'd be lawsuits galore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
I hate to be the one to say it, but I think we need to cut off all permanent immigration to the United states whether it be legal or illegal. Right now, as a young nation of some 200+ years, we're already at 300 million people. Temporary immigration is fine (for work purposes).
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:33 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 855,669 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If you are indeed serious, I must concur. Now, what should we do with the 30 million illegals currently here?
What is currently happening that is forcing them to go home? New laws being passed, ailing economy... essentially the monetary factor. Now if this is kicked up a notch (without hurting American citizens) I'm positive that more people will go back. In turn, leaving a smaller illegal community. In which forced deportation will become the next step. Once this is completed the U.S government needs to worry about tighter border security and start working on re-vamping our current guest worker program. The only reason the bracero guest worker program did not work was due to corruption on both sides of the border. Since the corruption factor will no longer be an issue, the guest workers can be kept in line easier. They can come here to work, get their money, and go back to their home country until they can come again. This would help our economy, and economies around the world.
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:36 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,638,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I think that growth is healthy. New York City has well over 8 million people and keeps growing; it is said that soon we will hit the 9 million mark and things here are better than ever. Growth is generally a good thing for our economy; almost no one wants stagnance. It's just my personal opinion and you are entitled to yours. Regarding depeletion of resources, we need to get our act together and 1) change our built environment / cut down on sprawl and 2) start using renewable energy sources. Once we do get our act together in this respect, we will have the capacity to grow for generations to come.
All pretty much sound thinking and 'beyond argument'. However, you don't address the TYPE of growth for which we'll 'have the capacity'...and to me, that's of critical importance. It's one thing to have the theoretical 'room to grow', and another thing to continue to admit millions of people with poor educations, only a vague notion of how to 'get along' in a high-tech society, and with few marketable skills.

This critical point makes all the difference, IMHO, in whether we'll have growth by which we'll prosper, or growth with which we'll be hard-pressed to find ways 'cope with'. BOTH are types of 'growth'..
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