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Old 08-24-2008, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
We've talked about this before. I can look past the emotional/symbolic stuff to get to the actual matter at hand. The matter here is not the illegal immigrants; it's their American-born children. And no, GuyPinestra, it's quite common that parents and children are subject to the jurisdiction of different states/countries. For example, a man who raises his family in suburban NJ but works in NY is subject to the jurisdiction of both states while his family is only subject to the jurisdiction of NJ. If you want to hear the reverse situation, while I was in college (and a dependant of my parents), they were ONLY subject to the jurisdiction of FL while I was subject to the jurisdiction of both FL and MA. An American-born child of illegal immigrants is subject to this country's jurisdiction even though his parents may not be subject to that same jurisdiction.
No, I don't think you can "look past the emotional/symbolic stuff." Otherwise, you would not continue to try to defend the indefensible. Obviously, we will again have to agree to disagree. Beating a dead horse is an exercise in futility.

Can you answer my previous question? How are illegal aliens working in this country, if not by violating additional laws?
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:38 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,275,065 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Can you answer my previous question? How are illegal aliens working in this country, if not by violating additional laws?
In many instances, employers continue to hire them and pay them under the table. This is a violation of the law by the employers.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:43 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I disagree with you that the illegal immigrants "resist immigration." In my experience (teaching English literacy to people who are mostly illegal immigrants) they DO want to assimilate. I don't think we're going to get anywhere arguing this because it's an
I think you meant 'resist assimilation'..and, again, I won't got into a long argument about this, because like many other things, it's a matter of interpretation as to what is meant by 'assimilation'. The plain fact is, these 'new people', above and beyond the fact that they're illegal, 'resist assimilation' as it was ONCE understood, in no small part because WE (the resident US population) no longer value and 'push' assimilation ourselves. Much of what USED to be understood as 'must -do's' by any new immigrant, is now derided as simply the demands of racist, xenophobic 'nativists', and thus it's no longer fashionable to 'push people' to become "Americans"....particularly when we can no longer politely agree on what a "real" American is, anyway. A 'moot point', to a certain extent. Today's illegals have 'stumbled into' a society no longer sure of its OWN aims and parameters.

I DO KNOW that theoretically, for their own purposes, many Hispanic immigrants do, in fact, realize that learning English would at LEAST be a 'good thing'....Spanish-language TV and newspapers are heavy with 'learn English' ads....however, today, the push to do ANYTHING to adapt is largely looked at as 'optional'....and that much, at least, isn't the fault of the illegals. They only know what "we" (American society) tell them...and what MANY of us tell them is.."it's OK if you want to assimilate, and to learn English..but it's EQUALLY OK if you DON'T. Either way, you're 'cool'....and you have rights, and we 'owe' you stuff, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise".

With THAT sort of message, it's little wonder that some people will simply see assimilation as 'not worth the effort'.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
In many instances, employers continue to hire them and pay them under the table. This is a violation of the law by the employers.
C'mon crisp, you know it doesn't ONLY involve employers paying them under the table; which incidentally is not only a violation for the employer, it is a federal offense for the employee as well. The VAST majority of illegals are using a stolen or fake SSN, and you darn well know it. Why are you defending criminals?
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:53 PM
 
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First of all, I do NOT believe that the "vast majority of illegals are using a stolen or fake SSN." This is speculation and it's NOT a known fact. Second, this isn't about the illegal immigrants. It's about their American-born children. Stop diverting from the course of this discussion.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
First of all, I do NOT believe that the "vast majority of illegals are using a stolen or fake SSN." This is speculation and it's NOT a known fact. Second, this isn't about the illegal immigrants. It's about their American-born children. Stop diverting from the course of this discussion.
Then, by what "legal" means are they illegally employed? Can you answer that?
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:00 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,275,065 times
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No. This is a distraction from the issue at hand. American-born infants are not working illegally in this country; some of their parents are, and this does not matter at all when we are talking about the whether the American-born children are subject to this country's jurisdiction.
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:01 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 852,101 times
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When it comes down to it, what is the Government doing about Immigration? Let alone bringing up the 14th amendment to the supreme court to determine how it is interpreted?
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
No. This is a distraction from the issue at hand. American-born infants are not working illegally in this country; some of their parents are, and this does not matter at all when we are talking about the whether the American-born children are subject to this country's jurisdiction.
You just answered my question. Thanks!

Back on topic. Illegal + Illegal = Illegal
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:09 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,897,260 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
C'mon crisp, you know it doesn't ONLY involve employers paying them under the table; which incidentally is not only a violation for the employer, it is a federal offense for the employee as well. The VAST majority of illegals are using a stolen or fake SSN, and you darn well know it. Why are you defending criminals?
We both know that many illegals and anchor babies feel the need to minimize the criminal acts of their parents and illegal relatives. That is why many defend the indefensible by stating that those who have not committed any "crimes" should be granted amnesty.

1. They always negate the fact that breaking and entering is indeed a crime in the US. Yet they conveniently pardon themselves and expect Americans to do the same.

2. Adding insult to injury, they don't consider stealing or creating a SSN a crime because we "forced" them to resort to identity theft because they have to do that in order to work. If we gave them amnesty then they could work in America legally.

3. Then there is the justification for stealing welfare, healthcare and foodstamps. Their excuse for that? Well their anchor is a citizen of the US and therefore they are entitled to every freebie they steal.

To do otherwise would mean admitting that the minute they cross the border without permission their parents are criminals and every act committed thereafter makes them accessories to their parents crimes.
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