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Old 08-24-2008, 03:45 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,632,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
As usual, you hit the nail on the head!
Thanks...I usually hit my THUMB !....
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Old 08-24-2008, 04:57 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,717,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
This is one of your worst posts ever; you have read all of the legal analysis that I have put forth in this thread and then you dismiss all of it with "Illegal + illegal = illegal" ?!? At least I took the time to watch the video JDubsMom posted and gave a non-emotional legal analysis of the issue at hand. Furthermore, I kept to my analysis without getting distracted by all the irrelevant emotional symbolism being thrown at me. Thankfully, lawmakers and courts agree with the way I interpret things. Your interpretation doesn't matter in practice because whether you like it or not, the child of two illegal immigrants IS given United States citizenship. Write to your Congressional representatives and try to change the interpretation because until you succeed in getting it changed these American-born children are as legal and as American as you are.
Why are you thankful that the lawmakers and courts agree with your interpretation?
Most First World countries have gotten rid of birthright citizenship because they experienced the very problems we are having- it is abused by millions of people. Why not put your cards on the table? Do you think birthright citizenship should be abolished? Or should we continue with this interpretation that you are thankful for?
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Old 08-24-2008, 06:36 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,292,002 times
Reputation: 1675
I'm thankful that we live in one of the only countries in the First World that recognizes children born here as Americans. I may admire many aspects of French/Spanish/Italian society, but that they don't give citizenship automatically to all children born in those countries is certainly NOT one of them. Why would I not be thankful that our country refuses to allow children who have spent 100% of their lives here to be alienated as non-citizens? Birthright citizenship is one thing that - in my opinion - our country does RIGHT (unlike constructing our built environment! But that shall be left to the overpopulation thread) I'm not hiding any "cards" behind my back either; they are all on the table.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,669,573 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I'm thankful that we live in one of the only countries in the First World that recognizes children born here as Americans. I may admire many aspects of French/Spanish/Italian society, but that they don't give citizenship automatically to all children born in those countries is certainly NOT one of them. Why would I not be thankful that our country refuses to allow children who have spent 100% of their lives here to be alienated as non-citizens? Birthright citizenship is one thing that - in my opinion - our country does RIGHT (unlike constructing our built environment! But that shall be left to the overpopulation thread) I'm not hiding any "cards" behind my back either; they are all on the table.
Add me to the list who wants birthright citizenship gone as well---------to bring us in line with the rest of the First World.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,832,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I'm thankful that we live in one of the only countries in the First World that recognizes children born here as Americans. I may admire many aspects of French/Spanish/Italian society, but that they don't give citizenship automatically to all children born in those countries is certainly NOT one of them. Why would I not be thankful that our country refuses to allow children who have spent 100% of their lives here to be alienated as non-citizens? Birthright citizenship is one thing that - in my opinion - our country does RIGHT (unlike constructing our built environment! But that shall be left to the overpopulation thread) I'm not hiding any "cards" behind my back either; they are all on the table.
I don't think you have ever been more passionate, nor obstinate. What's the 'real' motive behind your inexorable defense of birthright citizenship?

Before the Pro-Illegal Brigade launches an attack……I’m not accusing him of being an anchor baby.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:28 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,003,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I don't think you have ever been more passionate, nor obstinate. What's the 'real' motive behind your inexorable defense of birthright citizenship?

Before the Pro-Illegal Brigade launches an attack……I’m not accusing him of being an anchor baby.
Cris has principles.
Like me, he's a bit of an idealist ,and I believe him when he says thats how he feels. I don't think theres any hidden motive.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:34 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,292,002 times
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Thanks AMC. It's confusing to some people here that I don't have the cookie-cutter "pro illegal" view. It blows people's minds even further that I am a proud, taxpaying American as well who has lived my whole entire life in "sanctuary cities" and was raised by two born-and-raised American parents. Benicar knows I'm not an "anchor baby" and I don't know why she doesn't believe that I don't have some hidden agenda. If I do, what is it?? I really want to know.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:39 PM
 
18 posts, read 33,612 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I'm thankful that we live in one of the only countries in the First World that recognizes children born here as Americans. I may admire many aspects of French/Spanish/Italian society, but that they don't give citizenship automatically to all children born in those countries is certainly NOT one of them. Why would I not be thankful that our country refuses to allow children who have spent 100% of their lives here to be alienated as non-citizens? Birthright citizenship is one thing that - in my opinion - our country does RIGHT (unlike constructing our built environment! But that shall be left to the overpopulation thread) I'm not hiding any "cards" behind my back either; they are all on the table.
Why? Maybe because becoming an American should be based on more than just the location of one's birth. Most other nations have done away with automatic citizenship upon birth because they were smart enough to realize that there has to be some kind of cultural connection and allegiance to the host country in order to grant the child citizenship.

You keep making the argument that the child has the intent to stay here, or something along those lines. How can an infant child possibly know what he/she wants to do?

Illegal alien parents have not petitioned for citizenship and have not renounced allegiance to their host nations. They cannot vote, nor can they be called into courts of law. They are therefore not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", so how can their infant children possibly be?

And isn't "minimum contacts" an aspect of US civil law? I may be wrong here but isn't that State to State, mostly for civil lawsuits? I did not know it had international bearing and could be used to determine national jurisdiction.

Lastly - As for the children of illegals being just as American as I am, I find that comment deeply offensive. I'm retired military. My family has had a history of military retirements for over 4 generations now. All of us proudly served the majority of our adult lives because we love our country very deeply and are incredibly proud to be Americans and wanted to give something back to this wonderful nation for the lives we have been given.

For you to sit there and tell me that a child born to an illegal alien five minutes after she illegally crosses our border is just as American as someone whose parents were both legal citizens as well as Americans of 100 percent allegiance is disturbing to me. Being an American citizen is a great privilege and an honor and it has to be about more than just location of birth.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,832,685 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaba137 View Post
Why? Maybe because becoming an American should be based on more than just the location of one's birth. Most other nations have done away with automatic citizenship upon birth because they were smart enough to realize that there has to be some kind of cultural connection and allegiance to the host country in order to grant the child citizenship.

You keep making the argument that the child has the intent to stay here, or something along those lines. How can an infant child possibly know what he/she wants to do?

Illegal alien parents have not petitioned for citizenship and have not renounced allegiance to their host nations. They cannot vote, nor can they be called into courts of law. They are therefore not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", so how can their infant children possibly be?

And isn't "minimum contacts" an aspect of US civil law? I may be wrong here but isn't that State to State, mostly for civil lawsuits? I did not know it had international bearing and could be used to determine national jurisdiction.

Lastly - As for the children of illegals being just as American as I am, I find that comment deeply offensive. I'm retired military. My family has had a history of military retirements for over 4 generations now. All of us proudly served the majority of our adult lives because we love our country very deeply and are incredibly proud to be Americans and wanted to give something back to this wonderful nation for the lives we have been given.

For you to sit there and tell me that a child born to an illegal alien five minutes after she illegally crosses our border is just as American as someone whose parents were both legal citizens as well as Americans of 100 percent allegiance is disturbing to me. Being an American citizen is a great privilege and an honor and it has to be about more than just location of birth.
Excellent post! Thank you for your service to our country.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:45 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,632,169 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaba137 View Post
Why? Maybe because becoming an American should be based on more than just the location of one's birth. Most other nations have done away with automatic citizenship upon birth because they were smart enough to realize that there has to be some kind of cultural connection and allegiance to the host country in order to grant the child citizenship.

You keep making the argument that the child has the intent to stay here, or something along those lines. How can an infant child possibly know what he/she wants to do?

Illegal alien parents have not petitioned for citizenship and have not renounced allegiance to their host nations. They cannot vote, nor can they be called into courts of law. They are therefore not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", so how can their infant children possibly be?

And isn't "minimum contacts" an aspect of US civil law? I may be wrong here but isn't that State to State, mostly for civil lawsuits? I did not know it had international bearing and could be used to determine national jurisdiction.

Lastly - As for the children of illegals being just as American as I am, I find that comment deeply offensive. I'm retired military. My family has had a history of military retirements for over 4 generations now. All of us proudly served the majority of our adult lives because we love our country very deeply and are incredibly proud to be Americans and wanted to give something back to this wonderful nation for the lives we have been given.

For you to sit there and tell me that a child born to an illegal alien five minutes after she illegally crosses our border is just as American as someone whose parents were both legal citizens as well as Americans of 100 percent allegiance is disturbing to me. Being an American citizen is a great privilege and an honor and it has to be about more than just location of birth.
Those are some very convincing arguments, presented clearly and convincingly. I'd be very interested in hearing the rebuttal you get...(if you do, that is)...
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