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Old 08-24-2008, 10:36 AM
 
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Birthright Citizenship & Allegiance to America: Chapman University School of Law Dean Dr. John Eastman explains why the 14th Amendment does not give the children of illegal immigrants--or legal tourists for that matter--automatic citizenship at birth. Dr. Eastman outlines three potential methods to correct the crisis and encourages you to study up on the issue and then call your congressional representative.

VIDEO:
YouTube - The Challenge Facing America

Either somebody forgot to tell the illegal aliens or our government is guilty of permitting this travesty.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Either somebody forgot to tell the illegal aliens or our government is guilty of permitting this travesty.
My vote goes to the latter. Our government clearly understands the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." However, the correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment would preclude rewarding millions of illegal aliens with a U.S. citizen, and thus would eliminate a HUGE magnet. They have to do whatever is necessary to ensure a continuous flow of 'slave' labor for their corporate masters. As we all know, what massa wants, massa gets.

Excellent video. Thanks for posting.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:11 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,906,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
My vote goes to the latter. Our government clearly understands the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." However, the correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment would preclude rewarding millions of illegal aliens with a U.S. citizen, and thus would eliminate a HUGE magnet. They have to do whatever is necessary to ensure a continuous flow of 'slave' labor for their corporate masters. As we all know, what massa wants, massa gets.

Excellent video. Thanks for posting.
Dead on! true interpretation of the 14th should be followed and that would indeed eliminate the masses of poverty stricken women deliberately abusing the system. The fact that their presence and abundant breeding is overwhelming our population and draining our resources you would think even the greedy corporate crooks would acknowledge the problem. Maybe after the election they will put clarification of the 14th amendment on the agenda. It's more than obvious even to the laziest of gov. officials that it needs to be addressed and settled once and for all.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:28 AM
 
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This is interesting stuff. However, when some people on this forum (not necessarily you or Benicar, but plenty of others) claim that "anchor babies" aren't really citizens, their argument doesn't have much practical value in 2008 because the current interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment is that anyone born within the United States, regardless of the national origin of his/her parents, is an American citizen. You can argue for a different interpretation of that Amendment but the point is that due to the current interpretation, these "anchor babies" are being given American citizenship whether you like it or not. However, I must say that the argument that this gentleman presents certainly does have theoretical value and could work to influence lawmakers to change how the Fourteenth Amendment is interpreted in the future. Though I certainly agree with this gentleman that illegal immigrants aren't necessarily "subject to the jurisdiction" of this country, I do believe that a person born on US soil is subject to this country's jurisdiction.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,828,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
This is interesting stuff. However, when some people on this forum (not necessarily you or Benicar, but plenty of others) claim that "anchor babies" aren't really citizens, their argument doesn't have much practical value in 2008 because the current interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment is that anyone born within the United States, regardless of the national origin of his/her parents, is an American citizen. You can argue for a different interpretation of that Amendment but the point is that due to the current interpretation, these "anchor babies" are being given American citizenship whether you like it or not. However, I must say that the argument that this professor of law presents certainly does have theoretical value and could work to influence lawmakers to change how the Fourteenth Amendment is interpreted in the future.
Don't you at least consider it 'suspect' that diplomats and other "legal" temporary residents are not offered this "interpretation" if they give birth on our soil?
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,658,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
My vote goes to the latter. Our government clearly understands the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." However, the correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment would preclude rewarding millions of illegal aliens with a U.S. citizen, and thus would eliminate a HUGE magnet. They have to do whatever is necessary to ensure a continuous flow of 'slave' labor for their corporate masters. As we all know, what massa wants, massa gets.

Excellent video. Thanks for posting.
To hear the pro illegals say it: we (Americans of any race/ethnicity) are the 'massa's' these days.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:44 AM
 
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Well, the test for personal jurisdiction, simply put is that one have at least "minimum contacts" with a state/this country, and a way to look into that is if a person at least minimally "avails him/herself to the laws of" that state/this country. Because temporary residents retain an allegiance to another country and do not necessarily plan to avail themselves to the laws of this country in the long term, I can understand the interpretation that their children born on US soil would not be given citizenship. However, the bulk of illegal immigrants are here to stay, and do plan to "avail themselves to the laws of this country." Because an infant has no choice but to "avail itself to the laws of this country" as well, I believe that the "minimum contacts" requirement for personal jurisdiction is satisfied and that the current interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment is a valid one.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Well, the test for personal jurisdiction, simply put is that one have at least "minimum contacts" with a state/this country, and a way to look into that is if a person at least minimally "avails him/herself to the laws of" that state/this country. Because temporary residents retain an allegiance to another country and do not necessarily plan to avail themselves to the laws of this country in the long term, I can understand the interpretation that their children born on US soil would not be given citizenship. However, the bulk of illegal immigrants are here to stay, and do plan to "avail themselves to the laws of this country." Because an infant has no choice but to "avail itself to the laws of this country" as well, I believe that the "minimum contacts" requirement for personal jurisdiction is satisfied and that the current interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment is a valid one.
If illegal aliens do in fact plan to "avail themselves to the laws of this country" please explain why they have chosen to flagrantly ignore them.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:03 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,628,336 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If illegal aliens do in fact plan to "avail themselves to the laws of this country" please explain why they have chosen to flagrantly ignore them.
Really, this little 'quip' is the crux of the entire matter....the 'availing' that these folks do, is an entirely SELECTIVE one. They (apparently) intend to press for full protection of the law, and the full benefits thereof, while obviously having chosen NOT to obey ONE of the laws (if not several) that would have prevented them from coming here at ALL, to do any later 'availing'.

Getting around that unpleasant, awkward, and inconvenient fact is what causes much of the anger and 'shifting positions' behind the whole 'illegal' matter. The very term 'pro-illegal', in itself, is a textbook example of 'selective obedience' to law....It's as if someone's saying, "OK, agreed..they shouldn't BE HERE. But now that they ARE here, let's talk about getting them 'fair treatment' "....The whole argument does involve a lot of 'selectivity', for sure.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:15 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,287,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If illegal aliens do in fact plan to "avail themselves to the laws of this country" please explain why they have chosen to flagrantly ignore them.
American citizens flagrantly ignore laws all of the time but we are still said to "avail ourselves to the laws of this country." You can still break some laws but avail yourself to others. Just because you're in a hurry and going 65 MPH on the Beltway in a 55 MPH zone doesn't mean that you are not availing yourself to this country's laws; I don't know you well but I would venture a guess that in general you DO avail yourself to this country's laws. However, this isn't really about the illegal immigrants; it's about their American-born children. Due to their parents' choice to move to this country (albeit in violation of this country's immigration laws) with plans to stay and avail themselves to this country's laws once getting here and in the future, these children are born into the country where their parents plan to raise them; these children should be subject to our jurisdiction and should be given citizenship the moment they are born. These children have no choice in this matter; they are born into this country by no choice of their own and shouldn't be denied the protection of this country's laws due to their parents' choice to ignore this country's immigration laws.
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