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Old 09-03-2008, 06:36 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watercat2000 View Post
Thanks for posting the article about the shooting at Chamuco's. People need to understand that the shootings are not random. They are NOT targeting the bar, or its clients. They target cartel "members/employees" or whatever you want to call them that go into the night clubs. It is sad that legitimate businesses like Chamuco's have to be in the middle of this situation.
But of course, all the killing that's been going on as stated by malamute, is ingrained by Mexican culture
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Old 09-03-2008, 07:47 PM
 
2,256 posts, read 2,962,830 times
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I've been to Chamuco's!

But this is really no cause for alarm. We have a very capable and efficient law enforcement community here, and the chances of random gun battles and sprayed fire like we've seen in Juarez is very low.

Vigilance is the more appropriate course of action.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:16 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watercat2000 View Post
Thanks for posting the article about the shooting at Chamuco's. People need to understand that the shootings are not random. They are NOT targeting the bar, or its clients. They target cartel "members/employees" or whatever you want to call them that go into the night clubs. It is sad that legitimate businesses like Chamuco's have to be in the middle of this situation.
Mostly the hitman have no interest in wasting bullets on innocent bystanders. It wouldn't be prudent.

There is danger though -- a few months ago, they executed their targets and then in trying to get away ran into traffic and began shooting at people to get out of the way and to prevent witnesses. One woman -- apparently completely innocent was killed.

Some of the police killed might actually have been good guys -- it's kind of hard to tell but I can tell you that not all Ciudad Juarez cops are crooks, some are helpful, they care about their country, and are trying to do a job. It's bad that the good ones trying to keep law and order could be killed -- and probably are.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:18 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
But of course, all the killing that's been going on as stated by malamute, is ingrained by Mexican culture
Liar. I said the corruption is. The killing is a natural result of the corruption. And the fact that many Mexicans like yourself will not make a stand, you're here in the USA doing nothing at all for the country you claim to love so much.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:36 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Liar. I said the corruption is. The killing is a natural result of the corruption. And the fact that many Mexicans like yourself will not make a stand, you're here in the USA doing nothing at all for the country you claim to love so much.
Corruption is part of Mexican culture? So I guess it must be in the culture of Russia too, Myanmar (burma), Somalia, Iraq, Haiti, Uzbekistan, Tonga, Sudan, Chad, Afghanistan, Laos, Guinea, Equatorial Guinea and The Republic of Congo as well. Just because its prominent in an area doesn't mean its apart of its culture. We can make assumptions about so much, but you sir, have crossed the line.

As I've stated before I try my best to have a balanced stand on a lot of issues. The issues I'm most familiar is obviously both American and Mexican culture by growing up in both. Why should I take a stand for a country I have no affiliation to besides my parents being born there? I was born in America, I have been educated in America, I was brought up in America, I'm an American. Also as I have said I have a connection with Mexico because my parents were born there, and have a common culture with Mexico, I have never claimed that I hated the country or loved it.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,173,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Corruption is part of Mexican culture? So I guess it must be in the culture of Russia too, Myanmar (burma), Somalia, Iraq, Haiti, Uzbekistan, Tonga, Sudan, Chad, Afghanistan, Laos, Guinea, Equatorial Guinea and The Republic of Congo as well. Just because its prominent in an area doesn't mean its apart of its culture.
Hey, you're finally starting to get it...
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:51 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Corruption is part of Mexican culture? So I guess it must be in the culture of Russia too, Myanmar (burma), Somalia, Iraq, Haiti, Uzbekistan, Tonga, Sudan, Chad, Afghanistan, Laos, Guinea, Equatorial Guinea and The Republic of Congo as well. Just because its prominent in an area doesn't mean its apart of its culture. We can make assumptions about so much, but you sir, have crossed the line.

As I've stated before I try my best to have a balanced stand on a lot of issues. The issues I'm most familiar is obviously both American and Mexican culture by growing up in both. Why should I take a stand for a country I have no affiliation to besides my parents being born there? I was born in America, I have been educated in America, I was brought up in America, I'm an American. Also as I have said I have a connection with Mexico because my parents were born there, and have a common culture with Mexico, I have never claimed that I hated the country or loved it.
Okay -- I'm not sure you ever answered my question. You say you bribe cops in Mexico. When you're in the USA, do you offer cops bribes?

When you're bribing cops in Mexico, do you think it's legal to do so? That the law actually would allow it? And in Mexico, would you be inclined to offer just about any cop any where a bribe to get out of paying a ticket?

When something is prominent in an area then why wouldn't that be cultural?

Isn't that pretty much how something is defined to be cultural? Prominent in some area, or group of people. Spicy food for example -- not ALL Mexicans enjoy spicy foods, there are Mexicans who won't even eat onions and prefer bland foods so why do we believe chilis and "picante" foods are cultural? Because it is prominent although not 100%. Or language -- we would say Spanish is part of Mexican culture but there are Mexicans who never learned Spanish even though it's the prominent langauge in that country.

Like I said -- I don't believe that the government per se is the problem in Mexico. If you read the constitution, there's nothing in there that strikes you as especially bad. They have elections, presidency, congress, a justice system, a set of laws that don't appear to be all that outrageous.

Still -- over and over people will say there is corruption, a lot of graft. Some will tell you if you kick out the existing powers that be, things will still be the same because whoever replaces them will be just as bad. When people say that -- then what does it lead you to believe? The system itself isn't so much the problem as the people -- and not just a few people -- the problems are very widespread. It's a general attitude -- the attitude that says it's okay to offer and take bribes and so on. That's what makes change so difficult. It's not a matter of taking out the handful of corrupt, it's that replacements are not guaranteed to be any better -- and it's widespread.
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