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Old 08-29-2008, 01:06 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,037,808 times
Reputation: 2873

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergeyn View Post
Jesus, people...you are all so kind and just!

Most of you, looks like, haven't even read my post and say how I married a criminal. I thought I clearly said she is perfectly legal, didn't I? But no, the crowd shouted on: crucify him, crucify him...

I'd like to address 2 common sentiments about this, specifically about a marriage between an American and illegal.

1. The American should just go to the illegal spouse's foreign country.

What are they going to eat? Where are they going to live? The countries where most immigrants come from are very tough places to live. And what kind of screwed-up government will put its own citizens into harm's way just so they can be with someone they love? Such a suggestion is callous. Tremendous hardship for an essentially administrative violation.

2. They broke the law and should suffer the consequences.

I'm afraid of people who worship the law like many of you do. You seem to equate "legal" and "moral" which is a dangerous path. Law can justify some pretty messed up stuff, such as slavery, segregation, oppression of women and even genocide. If you tell me someone broke the law, you tell me nothing about the someone's moral character. And I tell you-- the law that breaks families apart is immoral and deserves no more respect than the laws used to punish slaves who escaped.

You, I or anyone has an intrinsic human right to fall in love with anyone and not be persecuted for that. And absolutely, not allowing an American to live with their loved one in America is persecution. The people who don't see that are the same kind of people who saw nothing wrong with slavery. Same self-righteous and heartless demagogues-- there isn't a drop of a difference.

...The sad thing is that this "deport them all no matter what" attitude (which is completely out of place in a civilized country like ours) is partially why there isn't a rational dialogue on immigration. So we've got the liberal nutjobs who think America should have open borders on one side and conservative ones on the other side. If you people understood that SOME of those people belong here and should be forgiven (just for the reasons of human decency), we might avoid a complete amnesty. Otherwise, the other side will eventually win because their "solution" is, while just as crazy, more workable than rounding over 10 million+ people, dragging them out of their homes and families and sending them South.

Good bye, then. You obviously need to hate and you need to place blame on "the other". To each their own and God be your judge.

OK, so how do you go about looking at those who should be forgiven vs those who should be deported? Illegal aliens that are married to us citizens? What if they are in an abusive marriage? What if the illegal has another family waiting for him in his home country (something that does happen...look at Obamas mother for instance). Then of course, just who gets to decide this moral quagmire? You? INS? The judicial system? It is all wonderful to say "we are compassionate! We make exceptions! We are truly kindhearted!" and actually implementing it, because god knows the US has such a streamlined beaurocracy
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:07 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,735,553 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergeyn View Post
I think that mass illegal immigration is a serious problem for America and I want it to stop as much as most other rational-thinking Americans. I am keenly aware of the problems that a large presence of unassimilated and virtually illiterate people inevitable poses for my country.

Nevertheless, I am astonished at the blanket hatred that most posters here seem to exhibit towards all illegals. Case in point-- mixed families, where one member (or more) is an American citizen.

I am very opinionated about the issue of "mixed" families because I am married to a foreigner myself. We did it the right way, went through all the paperwork to bring her here and are now going through more of it to get her permanent residence. And I'll tell you what-- even doing it right is a nerve-wrecking process that requires a lot of (often ridiculous) paperwork and a lot of opportunities to make a mistake and face a long delay. When you realize that your love and your family, the most important things in your life, depend on a byzantine set of rules and procedures, you can't help but feel powerless. Why is it that the Government makes me jump through hoops to be with the one I love, why can't it just accept and respect the choice of a citizen whom it supposedly serves?

It is crystal clear-- forcing a husband to be away from a wife or a child away from a parent is a terrible punishment that cannot be justified easily. Taking the ones you love away from you is about the worst that the Government can do to you. And if you are an American citizen your rights are being violated about as badly as they possibly can be by your own government-- isn't there something wrong here? How is the government serving its own citizens when it takes their spouses, children or parents and sends them far away?

I find it simply sick how people react to a news story about, for instance, an American citizen's "illegal" wife being deported or a Mom being sent away from her "anchor" child who hasn't seen anything but the US in their entire life. I sense a kind of sadistic jubilation here upon hearing that a family like that gets torn apart. The fine assembly of posters in this subforum seems to derive pleasure from suffering of others. When someone (their fellow American, I might add!) sobs in desperation and hopelessness, they're having a good day.
Not all of Americans feel like the others do. We are called Pro-illegals.
Many of us feel sick how our neighbors are being treated. If you can hang in here long enough, you will see that there are members that feel the pain the immigrants go through. Some of us have been called illegal aliens all because we do not agree how immigrants are treated. I'm sorry you have had to experience that.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,890,891 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergeyn View Post
Jesus, people...you are all so kind and just!

Most of you, looks like, haven't even read my post and say how I married a criminal. I thought I clearly said she is perfectly legal, didn't I? But no, the crowd shouted on: crucify him, crucify him...

I'd like to address 2 common sentiments about this, specifically about a marriage between an American and illegal.

1. The American should just go to the illegal spouse's foreign country.

What are they going to eat? Where are they going to live? The countries where most immigrants come from are very tough places to live. And what kind of screwed-up government will put its own citizens into harm's way just so they can be with someone they love? Such a suggestion is callous. Tremendous hardship for an essentially administrative violation.

2. They broke the law and should suffer the consequences.

I'm afraid of people who worship the law like many of you do. You seem to equate "legal" and "moral" which is a dangerous path. Law can justify some pretty messed up stuff, such as slavery, segregation, oppression of women and even genocide. If you tell me someone broke the law, you tell me nothing about the someone's moral character. And I tell you-- the law that breaks families apart is immoral and deserves no more respect than the laws used to punish slaves who escaped.

You, I or anyone has an intrinsic human right to fall in love with anyone and not be persecuted for that. And absolutely, not allowing an American to live with their loved one in America is persecution. The people who don't see that are the same kind of people who saw nothing wrong with slavery. Same self-righteous and heartless demagogues-- there isn't a drop of a difference.

...The sad thing is that this "deport them all no matter what" attitude (which is completely out of place in a civilized country like ours) is partially why there isn't a rational dialogue on immigration. So we've got the liberal nutjobs who think America should have open borders on one side and conservative ones on the other side. If you people understood that SOME of those people belong here and should be forgiven (just for the reasons of human decency), we might avoid a complete amnesty. Otherwise, the other side will eventually win because their "solution" is, while just as crazy, more workable than rounding over 10 million+ people, dragging them out of their homes and families and sending them South.

Good bye, then. You obviously need to hate and you need to place blame on "the other". To each their own and God be your judge.
Look we have laws for a reason and good reasons. I am married to a legal immigrant. In short we didn't cheat.
An american who knowingly gets involved with an illegal owns the outcome good or bad. They had many solid options before it became a crisis. They tried to cheat and take the easy path. It failed. They own it.
Its not our fault some people do stupid things. Getting involved with an illegal is stupid to begin with. Not making the attempt to make it right is more stupid still.
Its all about personal accountability.... I love my illegal spouse. I don't want to be seperated. Then move to his country and accept the consequences of that decision. The rest of us should not have to shoulder the burden every time someone decides to try and cheat and it fails.
Illegals hurt america. Many americans lost their livelyhoods, lost their homes and now are poor because of illegals. Sorry my first sympathy will always go to americans.
Illegals made their choices. Legals who involve themselves with illegals made their choices. All with full knowledge of the potentialbad ending. I would say you reap what you sow. The true victims and only ictims in a deportation are the children. They are the only ones who never had a choice in the matter. It would suck to have parents like thiers. No I don't hate illegals nor do I have sympathy for them. ID Theft, lowballing wages, fraud, tax evasion. These are criminals. I can pity the family of a convicted felon sent away for 10 years. But not the felon. He made the bad choices and has earned the outcome just like illegals and those who marry them. Options abound and they ignored all of them in favor of the cheat.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:08 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,037,808 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
Not all of Americans feel like the others do. We are called Pro-illegals.
Many of us feel sick how our neighbors are being treated. If you can hang in here long enough, you will see that there are members that feel the pain the immigrants go through. Some of us have been called illegal aliens all because we do not agree how immigrants are treated. I'm sorry you have had to experience that.
And some of us are called heartless, hatefilled and racist because we feel immigration laws should be upheld.

Please Sassyone, look at my response to the OP above your post, and tell me what your plan would be?
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:11 PM
 
1,861 posts, read 2,968,767 times
Reputation: 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by chey2u View Post
Sergeyn- you will only get hatred on this subforum. See they did not even pay attention to the fact that you are going through legal channels. I too am a mixed family that went through the legal process and my spouse is a US citizen. The INS does not make it easy but keep jmping through their hoops and soon the family will be secure. I empathize with your situation but you will get more hatred from these people than anything else. This group takes pride in their biased judgement of their stance. Re-read sergyn's post people he went through legal channels. This is not a forum where they try to fix the problem just to share their hate. Only a select few will be supportive.

Yes, we KNOW he went through legal channels. He's asking about illegals, and why we don't want them walking over the border and getting free stuff that WE pay for.

And, we certainly talk about a lot of solutions here.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:18 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,735,553 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
And some of us are called heartless, hatefilled and racist because we feel immigration laws should be upheld.

Please Sassyone, look at my response to the OP above your post, and tell me what your plan would be?
Good post camping, and to be honest I don't know what the plan should be, but we have seen post on this forum that are ruthless and the ones doing it are enjoying hurting these people. Yes, there are laws but that does not include calling names, like Americans are some kind of Gods.
I guess some plan might shorten the time and lower the amount of money they have to dish out to come here.
Just treating them like a human would be a good start.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:38 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,037,808 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
Good post camping, and to be honest I don't know what the plan should be, but we have seen post on this forum that are ruthless and the ones doing it are enjoying hurting these people. Yes, there are laws but that does not include calling names, like Americans are some kind of Gods.
I guess some plan might shorten the time and lower the amount of money they have to dish out to come here.
Just treating them like a human would be a good start.
In a perfect world, that would be great. In this world, however.....we don't have room for the millions, hell the billions of people that would like to live here. If we bordered China, can you imagine the mass on foot immigration that would take place? How do we choose between economic hardship and genocide? Political persecution and religious persecution?
We need immigration regulations...we need to be able to put a number on how many are let in, and what type of people we let in such as refugees, or people with skills that are needed. To have an open door policy may seem like the kind hearted thing to do, but in the long run we are really hurting everybody.
Maybe we should have a moratorium on immigration so that we can figure this one out, because what we have now is not working.
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
391 posts, read 740,761 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
Yes, we KNOW he went through legal channels. He's asking about illegals, and why we don't want them walking over the border and getting free stuff that WE pay for.

And, we certainly talk about a lot of solutions here.
sorry but I have not seen any. I just called illegal or pro illegal and I just feel hispanics are picked on more. In my area we have a larger influx of Russian immigrants. I know the treatment of illegal mexican immigrants and it angers me. I think all people should be treated humanely so because of that I get labled. Point me to solutions please
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
391 posts, read 740,761 times
Reputation: 103
oh forgive me dear camping I did not see your post while elsewhere. I refer to a select number on this subforum
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,819,795 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
Good post camping, and to be honest I don't know what the plan should be, but we have seen post on this forum that are ruthless and the ones doing it are enjoying hurting these people. Yes, there are laws but that does not include calling names, like Americans are some kind of Gods.
I guess some plan might shorten the time and lower the amount of money they have to dish out to come here.
Just treating them like a human would be a good start.
How are illegal aliens being treated inhumanely by the citizens of this country? Don't you mean the greedy employers who exploit them? As a matter of fact, illegal aliens are being treated a heck of a lot better than legal citizens of this country.
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