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Old 08-30-2008, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,178,995 times
Reputation: 391

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Honest comparisons? You call belittling someones culture an honest comparison? Looking at the facts abuse in the United States is carried out by Blacks. This isn't the first time malamute has directly attacked a groups culture and compared it to American culture, making American culture seem "glorious"-- no matter what the occasion. Yes American culture is great, I've grown up with it as well as Mexican culture. There are bad things about both cultures, there are bad people on both sides as well as good.
It's the La Raza zealots and the amnesty nuts that have made the claim about such fabulous 'Family Values' coming from SOB, trying somehow to convince the American sheeple that ANOTHER amnesty is a good idea. I'm sorry that others are pointing out that Mexico ain't got that market cornered after all. You get your panties in a wad EVERY time someone pointds this out, claiming xenophobia or racism is the reason.

The REAL truth is, Mexico's morality is WORSE than America's, and most sentient beings KNOW it.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:06 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 855,669 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The fact that millions of people are leaving one culture and trying to get into the country of another culture does say something doesn't it?

You have said it yourself, the reason for these people coming here is mainly the economic factor. Here you can make what other people make in a week. And I believe that that to be the case.

What's so wrong with Mexico that so many won't stay there in their own country? It's not the land certainly, nor the sunshine and weather. It's not the natural resources since Mexico is very rich in those. It's not even Mexico's constitution or form of government which is really not that horrid.

The form of Government isn't whats horrid, its how that form of Government is carried out. Am I wrong to assume you know nothing of Mexico's corrupt Government?

It has to do with culture certainly -- a culture that tolerates corruption, a two-class/caste society. A culture that doesn't encourage delaying childbirth until marriage/job/financial resourses to support a child.

Really, when did you become the expert on Mexican culture? How is someone from afar supposed to jump to conclusions on a culture that they're not apart of? Your talking about children out of wedlock aren't you? I speak from experience when I say that more Americans have children out of wedlock than Mexicans. That's from an observance from someone who is actually influenced by both cultures.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:07 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
You were not talking about our own crazy people. You were belittling another culture. Comparing their "values" to our, in your opinion, "surperior" culture.
I was belittling the whole stupid notion that illegals have some kind of superior family values which is used by the cheap labor advocates and politicians to justify the breaking of immigration laws, felony document fraud, ID theft and so on.

Illegals do not have superior family values, they are not more family oriented than any group of Americans.

You seem to think someone saying Mexicans are not superior in some way is belittling them --- get used to it -- but Americans are belittled all the time in this debate. Your own president Fox did plenty of that.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:09 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 855,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
It's the La Raza zealots and the amnesty nuts that have made the claim about such fabulous 'Family Values' coming from SOB, trying somehow to convince the American sheeple that ANOTHER amnesty is a good idea. I'm sorry that others are pointing out that Mexico ain't got that market cornered after all. You get your panties in a wad EVERY time someone pointds this out, claiming xenophobia or racism is the reason.

The REAL truth is, Mexico's morality is WORSE than America's, and most sentient beings KNOW it.

And there you go pointing fingers like NCLR is the spokesman for all Hispanic people. You're Hispanic aren't you? Do these people speak for you? Becuase they definitely do not speak for me. Being influenced by both cultures I can honestly say this. My Grandma told me the first time she held my grandfathers hand was the day of their wedding. Back then there were very high morals in Mexican culture. Different families have different culture obviously, and I can honestly say that both Mexican and American culture is headed downwards.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:10 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
......................
Hispanic Family Values? by Heather Mac Donald, City Journal Autumn 2006

Unless the life chances of children raised by single mothers suddenly improve, the explosive growth of the U.S. Hispanic population over the next couple of decades does not bode well for American social stability. Hispanic immigrants bring near–Third World levels of fertility to America, coupled with what were once thought to be First World levels of illegitimacy. (In fact, family breakdown is higher in many Hispanic countries than here.) Nearly half of the children born to Hispanic mothers in the U.S. are born out of wedlock, a proportion that has been increasing rapidly with no signs of slowing down.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:16 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 855,669 times
Reputation: 76
[quote=malamute;5054320]I was belittling the whole stupid notion that illegals have some kind of superior family values which is used by the cheap labor advocates and politicians to justify the breaking of immigration laws, felony document fraud, ID theft and so on.

Who said illegals had surperior family values? To be honest this is all coming from you and all your random assumptions about a culture you are not apart of. It's easily to view from afar and jump to conclusions, I'll give you that, its part of human instict. It's called prejudice. We're all a little prejudice, and we're all a little racist whether we want to face it or not.

Illegals do not have superior family values, they are not more family oriented than any group of Americans.

We percieve other cultures, by comparing them to our own. If its not our cup of tea, we make assumptions and point fingers. An example of a positive reporting would be Asian culture. Their educational family values are highly prized. We Americans like that, we like educated people. Even better if they're immigrants.

You seem to think someone saying Mexicans are not superior in some way is belittling them --- get used to it -- but Americans are belittled all the time in this debate. Your own president Fox did plenty of that.

Then I guess president Fox belittled his entire fathers side of the family. That's his fault. I don't believe anyones culture to be surperior than others. I think it can be equated to people think their race is superior to someone else's because they can't see anything in a different light.

I was born and raised in a very diverse neighborhood. There were Indian familes, jewish families, native American/anglo, Black/anglo , Latinos and have gotten a taste out of their cultures. I judge them by their character, not by their appearance or culture.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:17 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
Reputation: 22174
Another source in case anyone didn't like the other one:

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/.../AppendixM.pdf

The illegitimacy ratio varies considerably by race and ethnicity. In 2002, the
ratio was 33.8 percent for unmarried women of all races; 22.9 percent for
non-Hispanic white women; 43.4 percent for Hispanic women; and 68.0 percent for
black women (National Center for Health Statistics, 2003, p. 3).
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:20 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 855,669 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Hispanic Family Values? by Heather Mac Donald, City Journal Autumn 2006

Unless the life chances of children raised by single mothers suddenly improve, the explosive growth of the U.S. Hispanic population over the next couple of decades does not bode well for American social stability. Hispanic immigrants bring near–Third World levels of fertility to America, coupled with what were once thought to be First World levels of illegitimacy. (In fact, family breakdown is higher in many Hispanic countries than here.) Nearly half of the children born to Hispanic mothers in the U.S. are born out of wedlock, a proportion that has been increasing rapidly with no signs of slowing down.
I think you know who is McCain's vice president choice. How many children does she have? 5! You can find hispanic couples who have 5 children. No doubt. you can also find couples regardless of their ethnicity, who have 5 children. Each culture has their own business, their own problems. Surely you can agree that someone from Northern Mexico who is of mostly of Spanish ancestry will have the same culture as an Indian from Oaxaca?
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:22 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
Reputation: 22174
[quote=Californio;5054381]
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I was belittling the whole stupid notion that illegals have some kind of superior family values which is used by the cheap labor advocates and politicians to justify the breaking of immigration laws, felony document fraud, ID theft and so on.

Who said illegals had surperior family values? To be honest this is all coming from you and all your random assumptions about a culture you are not apart of. It's easily to view from afar and jump to conclusions, I'll give you that, its part of human instict. It's called prejudice. We're all a little prejudice, and we're all a little racist whether we want to face it or not.

Illegals do not have superior family values, they are not more family oriented than any group of Americans.

We percieve other cultures, by comparing them to our own. If its not our cup of tea, we make assumptions and point fingers. An example of a positive reporting would be Asian culture. Their educational family values are highly prized. We Americans like that, we like educated people. Even better if they're immigrants.

You seem to think someone saying Mexicans are not superior in some way is belittling them --- get used to it -- but Americans are belittled all the time in this debate. Your own president Fox did plenty of that.

Then I guess president Fox belittled his entire fathers side of the family. That's his fault. I don't believe anyones culture to be surperior than others. I think it can be equated to people think their race is superior to someone else's because they can't see anything in a different light.

I was born and raised in a very diverse neighborhood. There were Indian familes, jewish families, native American/anglo, Black/anglo , Latinos and have gotten a taste out of their cultures. I judge them by their character, not by their appearance or culture.

Vicente Fox's father was not American, only his grandfather was. His father was a Mexican citizen, born in Mexico to a Mexican mother and immigrant father.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:23 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 855,669 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Another source in case anyone didn't like the other one:

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/.../AppendixM.pdf

The illegitimacy ratio varies considerably by race and ethnicity. In 2002, the
ratio was 33.8 percent for unmarried women of all races; 22.9 percent for
non-Hispanic white women; 43.4 percent for Hispanic women; and 68.0 percent for
black women (National Center for Health Statistics, 2003, p. 3).
Going to Mexico every year, my parents are shocked to see such dramatic changes in the youths behavior. They are stunned be the fact that they see kids as young as 13 years old drunk on the street.

I'm not denying the fact that Hispanic teens have higher birth rates than any other ethnicity, this is a real problem in the Mexican community in these recent years. Why this is happening? No one is quite sure. But charaterizing these as "family values" is surely an ignorant assumption.
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