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Old 08-31-2008, 12:43 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 852,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Can't leave it all up to the government. At some point instead of blaming America for all their societal ills, the people of Mexico will have to look inward, look at how their youth is being recruited into trafficking, their own attitudes about the money of the drug lords.

Instead of proclaiming drug cartel music is mainstream, great classics and so on, they need to look what it's all about. The whole message it sends.

They need some kind of leadership -- wise men like Spike Lee and Bill Cosby who aren't afraid to point some things out, get at least some people questioning the message.
Quote:
Various companies, governmental agencies, and individuals have sought to ban narcocorridos. These attempts include a voluntary radio station black-out in Baja California. Representative Casio Carlos Narváez explained that radio executives did not want to make "people who break the laws of our country into heroes and examples". Former President of Mexico Vicente Fox also proposed banning narcocorridos

Your argument has become so convulted, you do not even know what you're talking about anymore. First your attacking Mexican culture and your assumption that its "widely accepted to kill people", and then you go an talk about the narcocorrido music that you say that Mexicans glorify and that nothing is being done to stop this music, and then I provided evidence proving you wrong yet again. No one is blaming America for its large consumption of Drugs, no one is blaming anyone here. Its a simple matter of supply and demand.
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:44 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Also: Killing gives peek into ‘narco’ culture - El Universal - Mexico News


Quote:
Though evidence is understandably hard to come by, some narco-corridistas allegedly have been paid commissions by drug dealers to write songs lionizing their exploits. Several Mexican states have tried to ban narco-corridos.
What other subject would you like to move on now? Right after its been reported that several states have tried banning this music? Have states ever tried to ban Rap music?

I now encourage you to stop posting, you're digging yourself deeper into the hole.
Your link actually supports what I am saying:

In a climate of suspicion, paranoia and escalating violence, the narco-corridistas increasingly might find themselves on "a very slippery slope," says Carlos Vélez Ibáñez, chairman of the Department of Trans-border, Chicana/o and Latina/o Studies at Arizona State University.

"I think either they have to fish or cut bait," Vélez Ibáñez says, "and you can´t have it both ways."
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:47 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 852,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Your link actually supports what I am saying:

In a climate of suspicion, paranoia and escalating violence, the narco-corridistas increasingly might find themselves on "a very slippery slope," says Carlos Vélez Ibáñez, chairman of the Department of Trans-border, Chicana/o and Latina/o Studies at Arizona State University.

"I think either they have to fish or cut bait," Vélez Ibáñez says, "and you can´t have it both ways."

Uhh..? Are you kidding me? Did you not say:
Quote:
Are there any Mexicans condemning the narco-grupos such as Tigres del Norte? Or like Villariagoso the mayor of LA, giving them awards? Does anyone ever bother to question why these groups glorify drug traffickers?
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:48 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Your argument has become so convulted, you do not even know what you're talking about anymore. First your attacking Mexican culture and your assumption that its "widely accepted to kill people", and then you go an talk about the narcocorrido music that you say that Mexicans glorify and that nothing is being done to stop this music, and then I provided evidence proving you wrong yet again. No one is blaming America for its large consumption of Drugs, no one is blaming anyone here. Its a simple matter of supply and demand.

If it's that simple -- just simple supply and demand and you open border advocates really don't want anything done about it, then you just apparently accept the consequences. So you're fine with 28 beheadings throughout Mexico in one month, you're fine with over 900 murdered in Ciudad Juarez, along with thousands being murdered in other places.

Can't question Mexicans at all, not their being the drug traffickers (blame Americans for that) not for their glorification of the drug king pins, so just do nothing but continue to insist on keeping the border open for the drug cartels to exploit, and just blame the addicts. Well -- fine but it's your country suffering the most for all that.
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:50 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 852,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
If it's that simple -- just simple supply and demand and you open border advocates really don't want anything done about it, then you just apparently accept the consequences. So you're fine with 28 beheadings throughout Mexico in one month, you're fine with over 900 murdered in Ciudad Juarez, along with thousands being murdered in other places.

Can't question Mexicans at all, not their being the drug traffickers (blame Americans for that) not for their glorification of the drug king pins, so just do nothing but continue to insist on keeping the border open for the drug cartels to exploit, and just blame the addicts. Well -- fine but it's your country suffering the most for all that.
Someone please pinch me! Please point out to me where I've stated I'm for open borders. I dont want anything to be done about it? Of course I do, or else I wouldn't be reporting it to you!
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:50 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Uhh..? Are you kidding me? Did you not say:
Well it's the first I heard of this guy -- and it sounds like he's living in the good ole US of A, not in his own country. It won't be those living in the USA, not Americans and not the Mexicans who will end up determining the fate of Mexico. It will be those who care enough to live there. Those who run will not be part of the solution if there is to be one.
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:54 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 852,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Well it's the first I heard of this guy -- and it sounds like he's living in the good ole US of A, not in his own country. It won't be those living in the USA, not Americans and not the Mexicans who will end up determining the fate of Mexico. It will be those who care enough to live there. Those who run will not be part of the solution if there is to be one.
In other words you're asking for more evidence. I do not know why you really need more evidence providing that Mexican states have already tried baning narcocorrido. Please, try another argument.

BBC NEWS | Americas | Mexico's forbidden songs
Quote:
Former President of Mexico Vicente Fox also proposed banning narcocorridos. [3]
Quote:
Baja California state radio stations signed an agreement to ban Narco-corridos songs, and instead have decided to play only songs that promote positive messages and good values.

FileRoom.org - Mexican Radio Stations Ban Some Music
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:54 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Someone please pinch me! Please point out to me where I've stated I'm for open borders. I dont want anything to be done about it? Of course I do, or else I wouldn't be reporting it to you!
Then I misunderstood when you said that about it's simply about supply and demand. That sounded like someone who believes it's unavoidable, that Americans must become methamphetamine addicts and that Mexicans must be their drug dealers.

The open border has as much to do with it as anything. If Mexico's meth were cut off at the border, then Americans would either not use it or find another source.

Myself -- I don't think all this has just to do with drug traffickers shipping to the USA anyway, I think it's much deeper than that.
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:57 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 852,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Then I misunderstood when you said that about it's simply about supply and demand. That sounded like someone who believes it's unavoidable, that Americans must become methamphetamine addicts and that Mexicans must be their drug dealers.

Pointing out facts makes someone pro-illegal and open borders? If I'm not mistaken, most anti-illegal arguments are forumlated by facts.

The open border has as much to do with it as anything. If Mexico's meth were cut off at the border, then Americans would either not use it or find another source.

Drugs will always find ways to get smuggled. Whether its through the border, or smugled through miami from Columbia or the rest of latin america.

Myself -- I don't think all this has just to do with drug traffickers shipping to the USA anyway, I think it's much deeper than that.
Deeper? Like your argument being deeply rooted in Mexican culture. Give me a break!!!!!!!!!11
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Old 08-31-2008, 01:00 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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In fact more and more I'm beginning to think saying this is all only about competition for drug routes to the USA is just a cover. The narco-mantas someone is putting up all over point to something else. Just like some of the other narco-messages that have been reported. The messages seem strange but maybe that's because we expect them to say something about those drug routes they're supposedly competing for, and they end up saying something else:

The sign left with the five severed heads on Sept. 6. read "The family doesn't kill for money. It doesn't kill women. It doesn't kill innocent people, only those who deserve to die."

And the famous ad they ran in Milenio:

The Michoacan Family

Who are we?

Common workers from the hot lands region in the state of Michoacan, organized by the need to end the oppression, the humiliation to which we have constantly been subjected by people who have always had power, which in turn allowed them to perpetrate all kinds of dirty tricks and abuses in the state. These include members of the Milenio cartel, those named Valencia, and other gangs, like the Gang of 30, who from the 80s until today have terrorized much of the state, above all the areas of Puruarán, Turicato, Tacámbaro, and Ario de Rosales, and who have carried out kidnappings, extortions, and other crimes that disturb Michoacan´s peace.
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