U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-31-2008, 01:02 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,493 times
Reputation: 76

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
In fact more and more I'm beginning to think saying this is all only about competition for drug routes to the USA is just a cover. The narco-mantas someone is putting up all over point to something else. Just like some of the other narco-messages that have been reported. The messages seem strange but maybe that's because we expect them to say something about those drug routes they're supposedly competing for, and they end up saying something else:

The sign left with the five severed heads on Sept. 6. read "The family doesn't kill for money. It doesn't kill women. It doesn't kill innocent people, only those who deserve to die."

And the famous ad they ran in Milenio:

The Michoacan Family

Who are we?

Common workers from the hot lands region in the state of Michoacan, organized by the need to end the oppression, the humiliation to which we have constantly been subjected by people who have always had power, which in turn allowed them to perpetrate all kinds of dirty tricks and abuses in the state. These include members of the Milenio cartel, those named Valencia, and other gangs, like the Gang of 30, who from the 80s until today have terrorized much of the state, above all the areas of Puruarán, Turicato, Tacámbaro, and Ario de Rosales, and who have carried out kidnappings, extortions, and other crimes that disturb Michoacan´s peace.
Now what are you going on blabbering about?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-31-2008, 01:10 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Now what are you going on blabbering about?
I said what that was -- the ad that was run in newspapers posted from the Michoacan cartel. There was never any mention in the whole ad about drug routes into the USA. The message is strange -- but it explains better what is taking place than the simple supply and demand thing for American tweakers.

I think it's a more complex thing than most people here realize. It reminds me of what a Chihuahua State Judicial police told me once about the "no-man's lands" in Juarez that no police go into, he said that whatever law and order people in those colonias have, or out in the sierras south of town are provided from gang-lords that rule them but they do not call the police and the police will not respond if they did because they will be killed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2008, 01:17 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,493 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I said what that was -- the ad that was run in newspapers posted from the Michoacan cartel. There was never any mention in the whole ad about drug routes into the USA. The message is strange -- but it explains better what is taking place than the simple supply and demand thing for American tweakers.

I think it's a more complex thing than most people here realize. It reminds me of what a Chihuahua State Judicial police told me once about the "no-man's lands" in Juarez that no police go into, he said that whatever law and order people in those colonias have, or out in the sierras south of town are provided from gang-lords that rule them but they do not call the police and the police will not respond if they did because they will be killed.
I think the entire drug debate has gotten so convuluted.. we have gangs getting into the drug trade.. in fact, the drug trade is historic. From the British getting into it (stealing the opium) and now to the Mexican cartels distrubuting it in Mexico. Also what plays a big factor is: The dollar. Why sell drugs in Mexico and earn pesos while you can earn probably 2 to 3 times as more selling your **** in the U.S?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2008, 01:19 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
I think the entire drug debate has gotten so convuluted.. we have gangs getting into the drug trade.. in fact, the drug trade is historic. From the British getting into it (stealing the opium) and now to the Mexican cartels distrubuting it in Mexico. Also what plays a big factor is: The dollar. Why sell drugs in Mexico and earn pesos while you can earn probably 2 to 3 times as more selling your **** in the U.S?
I do too and I think it's the simplistic explanation for what is taking place in Mexico and I doubt much of it has to do with the drug trade to the USA at all.

More of the Milenio ad:

Perhaps at this time there are people who don’t understand us, but we know that in the areas most affected they understand our actions, since now it is possible to ward off these delinquents who come from other states and whom we will not allow to enter Michoacan and continue committing crimes.

We are eradicating completely from the state the retail sale of the lethal drug known as ice, as it is one of the worst drugs, one that causes irreversible damage to society. We are going to prohibit the sale of altered wine said to come from Tepito. We know that what comes from there is of poor quality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2008, 01:25 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,493 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I do too and I think it's the simplistic explanation for what is taking place in Mexico and I doubt much of it has to do with the drug trade to the USA at all.

More of the Milenio ad:

Perhaps at this time there are people who don’t understand us, but we know that in the areas most affected they understand our actions, since now it is possible to ward off these delinquents who come from other states and whom we will not allow to enter Michoacan and continue committing crimes.

We are eradicating completely from the state the retail sale of the lethal drug known as ice, as it is one of the worst drugs, one that causes irreversible damage to society. We are going to prohibit the sale of altered wine said to come from Tepito. We know that what comes from there is of poor quality.
I really think its the dollar factor. If Mexico's currency was stronger than ours, why would cartels focus the drug trade on the U.S where they can make more money in Mexico? MONEY MONEY MONEY!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2008, 01:28 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
I really think its the dollar factor. If Mexico's currency was stronger than ours, why would cartels focus the drug trade on the U.S where they can make more money in Mexico? MONEY MONEY MONEY!
Are you 100% sure it's all only about getting drugs to the USA and why do you believe that? It sure does not seem that way to me when the 5 heads rolled out onto the dance floor in Uruapan, Michoacan were not traffickers to the USA but meth addicts themselves.

And how do you know that the over 900 killed so far in Juarez were trafficking drugs to the USA, or the two women beheaded today in Durango?

Are you really very sure that's all it's all about?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2008, 01:33 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,493 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Are you 100% sure it's all only about getting drugs to the USA and why do you believe that? It sure does not seem that way to me when the 5 heads rolled out onto the dance floor in Uruapan, Michoacan were not traffickers to the USA but meth addicts themselves.

Growing up in a suburban white neighborhood one thing I would always hear is: Don't do what you sell. It's all about getting your drugs into the U.S. It's also not only Mexican cartels who are smuggling into the U.S, your leaving out Columbia, the drug capital of the world.

And how do you know that the over 900 killed so far in Juarez were trafficking drugs to the USA, or the two women beheaded today in Durango?

I can't tell you if they were, I can't tell you if they weren't. But what I can tell you is that most of the executions are being played out by the Zeta cartel and targeting rival groups

.........................
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2008, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Californio, what country owns the coveted distinction of being the "drug capital of the world" is totally irrelevant. The fact is; the VAST majority of drugs sold in the U.S. originate in Mexico.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2008, 02:11 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,894,200 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Californio, what country owns the coveted distinction of being the "drug capital of the world" is totally irrelevant. The fact is; the VAST majority of drugs sold in the U.S. originate in Mexico.
Agreed. Maybe Californio should change his name to Spin City.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2008, 02:47 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Agreed. Maybe Californio should change his name to Spin City.
The problem is -- people don't like to hear anything negative about "culture" but there's a reason the top three countries in standard of living in the Western Hemisphere are the USA, Canada, and Barbados third.

You have to ask yourself why, what is it about those three that provide for the middle class lifestyles of their citizens. Of course culture has much to do with it, all three inherited a British colonial type culture, all three are English speaking, middle class.

Leave Latin America out of it for just a bit -- and why are the people of Barbados living much more comfortably than the people of Haiti? Then toss in some of the LA countries - and ask what's the difference.

Actually it was someone from the Philippines who pointed that out to me once -- that if you notice all the English speaking nations are what you'd call first world nations. It doesn't have to do with race of the people. Hong Kong for example was British ruled and for that reason outperforms the rest of China. India benefitted from British colonialization as did Australia, the USA, Canada, Barbados.

The good thing about having to look at culture is that culture can be changed. Culture involves how people view things -- whether they believe in caste societies, slavery, the role of women, and -- well everything they believe is part of their culture. Unlike race which isn't changeable but race has less to do with problems than culture obviously.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top