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Old 02-04-2007, 05:18 PM
 
Location: NE Florida
9,362 posts, read 22,370,095 times
Reputation: 9265

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Food stamps are not welfare any more than social security or disability payments are welfare. We all contribute to these programs and we are all entitled to them if we meet the criteria. Illegal immigrants are not eligible.

And as for undocumented aliens being solely responsible for breaking the law- that is illogical. I don't think that they would leave their families and countries of birth to come and do volunteer work in the USA. Someone must be paying them.

I've been enjoying this thread, as it is showing me that there are members here with moderate views. Some of the far right extremist comments on other threads were beginning to get me discouraged about the state of affairs in our country. It's good to see diverse opinions rather than just hate-mongering. True solutions are seldom achieved without a diversity of input.
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Old 02-04-2007, 05:21 PM
 
173 posts, read 372,423 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
No, I don't hate anyone. I have all different kinds of friends. I have a Sunni friend, and she is married to a ****e. I have Jewish friends. I have black friends, etc. I don't like lawbreakers, though, and people who take advantage of my tax dollars. If I need hospitalization, I have to pay for it. If an illegal alien needs it, they don't pay, just give a fake name and they are gone. I resent having to do the 'press 1 for English... This is America and English is the language.

Too many people confuse 'immigrants' with 'illegal aliens'. As a matter of fact, people who defend the lawbreakers refuse to call them 'illegal' and only use the word 'immigrant'. That definitely clouds the issue.
Ditto.......


la quinta family,
I would have a hard time disliking all Hispanics, since my husband is Hispanic, Indian and Black plus a spot of English, and my kids are all of that. Two of them are dark skinned and one is light....go figure. I promise, they all have the same father. My husband considers himself an American.....period. Do not call him a Hispanic American, unless you want a tongue lashing. He would laugh.

This whole thing has to do with preserving an orderly country. I am so sick of a divided country. If we are all just English speaking Americans (legal) and Americans only, we will lose the divisions. I am so sick of this special group, and that special group. All it does is divide us and cause resentments.

What illegals do is cause more chaos, and even more division.
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Old 02-04-2007, 05:41 PM
 
178 posts, read 680,965 times
Reputation: 62
It's the big lie of the immigration debate: Namely, that Americans would eagerly and gladly do the jobs being done by illegal immigrants if only wages were higher.

It started out as a rebuttal to President Bush's insistence that illegal immigrants “do jobs that Americans won't do.” Anti-illegal immigrant crusaders responded that these are actually “jobs that Americans won't do . . . for the wages offered.”

There are actually people out there who like to believe that there's some magical hourly or daily wage that an employer could offer at which a slew of Americans would leave their desk jobs and line up for a chance to do some of the hardest, dirtiest and crummiest jobs our society has to offer. In many cases, there is no such wage.

Still, someone has to do these types of jobs. And when employers try to fill them with illegal immigrants, they get crossways with native-born workers who are suddenly eager to do the very jobs that they and their families have shunned for a generation.

A recently filed class-action lawsuit against Tyson Foods Inc. insists that the world's largest meat processing company has kept wages low by hiring illegal immigrants. The suit by former and current employees alleges the company violated federal racketeering law, and that wages have dropped between 10 percent and 30 percent since the company began hiring large numbers of illegal immigrants. If the claim is successful, the alleged damages could exceed $150 million.

Tyson has been in the headlines before. In 2003, the company was acquitted in federal court of charges that it conspired to run an employee recruitment initiative that resembled a smuggling operation. The government alleged that Tyson managers hired intermediaries to transport hundreds of illegal immigrants across the U.S.-Mexico border and place them in more than a dozen Tyson plants.

Meanwhile, two months ago federal immigration agents raided a number of Swift & Co. meatpacking plants and arrested hundreds of illegal immigrants, some of whom were charged with identity theft.

We're told that employers hire illegal immigrants because they're willing to work for less than American workers. But it's more complicated. The issue is also how immigrants, illegal or not, approach the very institution of work. While many native-born Americans have come to consider labor a nuisance – especially if it is low-skilled, physical labor – immigrants have tended to see work as an opportunity to get ahead in America and fulfill the promise that brought them here.

Think about your own immigrant parents or grandparents and what they were willing to do for a dollar. Then think about what you would do.

Of course, employers shouldn't knowingly hire illegal immigrants, and those who do so should be punished. But, as I've come to realize over the years, the fact that employers are hiring illegal immigrants doesn't necessarily amount to exploitation. And, from what I gather, many employers resent the accusation.

I've heard from employers who say that, when they try to hire Americans, all they get are headaches and demands and complaints and demands and attitude and more demands. Once on the job, the employers say, many of these employees don't want to work; in fact, they spend their energy trying to find creative ways not to work and still get paid. Some quit after only a few weeks on the job – but not before making the employer feel as if they're doing him a favor instead of the other way around. In some cases, even the low-skilled are demanding high salaries because they value their time as much as the high-skilled workers do.

This might include the workers at a construction firm in Denver that was recently the subject of a report by Tom Brokaw of NBC. In the segment, the owner of the firm complained that some of the American workers he hired for as much as $15 an hour would quit after only a few weeks on the job. What was the problem there? Certainly not the wages.

One employer told me that, when she hired the native-born, she got a barrage of questions: “How much does this job pay? What are the benefits? How much vacation time do I get?” But when she hired immigrants, some of whom may have been illegal, she got only one question: “How much work can you give me?” Now, which one would you rather have working for you?

I still don't condone the hiring of illegal immigrants, but I'm beginning to understand it.
written well by Ruben, couldn't of said it better.
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Old 02-04-2007, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Midwest
6,739 posts, read 8,552,866 times
Reputation: 16512
Tis why I will not buy any Tyson products. Illegals are illegals. They are breaking the laws, and those who hire them should be fined and possibly jailed.

Why do the Illegal mexicans do the jobs us Americans don't do? Maybe and Just maybe their so ignorant they don't know any better and being illegal kinda keeps them off the radar, they'll do anything for a buck.

I'm sorry, but I do not and will not ever agree with having Illegals being ok in the Country I've called home, since birth. If they want to be here and live here, do it the right way as other immigrants have done for years and years.

Due to the immigration in my town, I can't get certain jobs, why???????? I don't speak Spanish and most jobs these days require being able to speak spanish.

Why must I be forced to learn Spanish? I shouldn't. My son, who will be going to school in 2 years, will be FORCED to learn spanish in 1st grade. Where is his rights to either want to learn it or not? I never had to back when I went to school, why must kids be forced to learn it. It should be choice. Let them learn ENGLISH. I'm sick of it all. truely am sick of being surrounded by it all.

My 2 cents. These are my opinions of course
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Old 02-04-2007, 06:13 PM
 
Location: NE Florida
9,362 posts, read 22,370,095 times
Reputation: 9265
Sammie-

I was FORCED to learn spanish in elementary school in the 60s. It was called education- learning a second language.
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Old 02-04-2007, 06:21 PM
 
178 posts, read 680,965 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie View Post
Tis why I will not buy any Tyson products. Illegals are illegals. They are breaking the laws, and those who hire them should be fined and possibly jailed.

Why do the Illegal mexicans do the jobs us Americans don't do? Maybe and Just maybe their so ignorant they don't know any better and being illegal kinda keeps them off the radar, they'll do anything for a buck.

I'm sorry, but I do not and will not ever agree with having Illegals being ok in the Country I've called home, since birth. If they want to be here and live here, do it the right way as other immigrants have done for years and years.

Due to the immigration in my town, I can't get certain jobs, why???????? I don't speak Spanish and most jobs these days require being able to speak spanish.

Why must I be forced to learn Spanish? I shouldn't. My son, who will be going to school in 2 years, will be FORCED to learn spanish in 1st grade. Where is his rights to either want to learn it or not? I never had to back when I went to school, why must kids be forced to learn it. It should be choice. Let them learn ENGLISH. I'm sick of it all. truely am sick of being surrounded by it all.

My 2 cents. These are my opinions of course
Or.... and this is just my opinion, American's (myself included)
are too spoiled to do the jobs they do. I have my air on
24/7 in the summertime.... I drive by these immigrants in
my air condiitioned car while they are doing
the landscaping in my community. I haven't seen
any of my neighbors complaining they got all the "good jobs"
Untill I see American's actually fighting for these tomatoe picking
jobs it just adds up to predjudice to me. Sorry.. that's just
my opinion. I think as a neighboring country we should know
Spanish. It's the majority here of immigrants that can speak
some english. I imagine learning English is pretty hard
as an adult. No, I wouldn't call them ignorant.

Last edited by la quinta family; 02-04-2007 at 06:33 PM..
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Old 02-04-2007, 07:14 PM
 
2,218 posts, read 4,891,714 times
Reputation: 1703
Quote:
Originally Posted by la quinta family View Post
Or.... and this is just my opinion, American's (myself included)
are too spoiled to do the jobs they do. I have my air on
24/7 in the summertime.... I drive by these immigrants in
my air condiitioned car while they are doing
the landscaping in my community. I haven't seen
any of my neighbors complaining they got all the "good jobs"
Untill I see American's actually fighting for these tomatoe picking
jobs it just adds up to predjudice to me. Sorry.. that's just
my opinion. I think as a neighboring country we should know
Spanish. It's the majority here of immigrants that can speak
some english. I imagine learning English is pretty hard
as an adult. No, I wouldn't call them ignorant.
Learning any language is hard to do as an adult.
Trust me I know.

But not do down play on one of your posts, but honestly, I really wouldn't care what I got paid, no one may believe me or what, but earning ANY money is more than no money, and for me, if I want to live I have to earn what I can to live my life, and if that's getting paid next to nothing and working literally 3 different jobs, then by all means that is what I will do to make sure I can live. No job would stop me, cleaning up toilets, picking crops, mowing lawns, whatever. Living in the real world is life and death, and you need money to live. I do agree that most people take for granted the money they make by buying their big suvs and whatnot, but it's not just that, it's also the fact that companies don't need to charge what they do for products, you watch on the television, and you see all this smaller countries and they drive all different types of cars and you wouldn't expect them to be able to afford them. Companies in the U.S just like to charge what they want which is why most people get inflated wages to pay for these items.

Once inflation is controlled, what others are getting paid can also be controlled. I think it's stupid to go to a vending machine and get a candy bar for 1.50 or a drink for 1.25. I miss being able to get drinks for .50 and candy bars for about the same.
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Old 02-04-2007, 09:01 PM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,855,709 times
Reputation: 330
To Wildberries,

Welfare gives you real money, food stamps just pays the groceries. Their culture primarly shuns the thought of welfare.

Last edited by dusesean1986; 02-04-2007 at 09:10 PM..
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Old 02-05-2007, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,265 posts, read 43,561,042 times
Reputation: 18790
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereinfla View Post
Sammie-

I was FORCED to learn spanish in elementary school in the 60s. It was called education- learning a second language.
LOL... in Europe and most other parts of the world, it's commonplace to be bilingual or multilingual by the time you finish grade school. They almost all teach English, their native language (obviously), and one or two others. And as you said, it's long been a requirement in our schools too - though we don't require the same level of fluency that other countries do. I had to take either French or Spanish, so I chose the latter, and boy am I glad!

Yes, it's easier for a Spanish-speaker to get jobs in some places (and Chinese, Tagalog or Tongan around here)... so people need to stop whining about it, and go take some classes! You don't need to be fluent for most jobs, but even basic knowledge goes a long way. I guarantee an employer would rather hire a native English speaker with Spanish knowledge, than a native Spanish-speaker with basic English skills.
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Old 02-05-2007, 02:28 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,265 posts, read 43,561,042 times
Reputation: 18790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
Why should they get social security and benefits if they aren't even citizens???
Did I say they should?? I was just explaining how they don't have it "easy" by not paying taxes... there are many drawbacks to working under the table, regardless of your immigration status.
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