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Old 09-06-2008, 06:49 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 855,075 times
Reputation: 76

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Please don’t tell me you are comparing a handful of people searching for an identity, to millions of illegal aliens invading our country. Once again, you are comparing apples to oranges.

I wasn't comparing, thats your assumption. I was correcting you on saying "we did not flee to another country" and some actually did for their reasons. not a bad thing.

Are you telling me that black people did not fight and die for civil rights in this country? Are you telling me that 20-30 percent of the black population left this country and ‘returned’ to Africa? Are you telling me that the U.S. government encouraged and facilitated this voyage back to the Motherland? Are you telling me that they illegally entered Africa and demanded to be treated as citizens? What exactly is your point?
Look at this. I said one thing and you respond back with 10 million things I "could have said". Please save it.
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Old 09-06-2008, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,834,008 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Look at this. I said one thing and you respond back with 10 million things I "could have said". Please save it.
Then please explain what you are implying. There is no comparison between courageous people willing to fight and die for their rights -- and cowards who flee by the millions to another country expecting and “demanding” rights and privileges they are not entitled to. It is absurd for you to even make a comparison; and it is an affront to all who fought and died for the cause.
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Old 09-06-2008, 07:13 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 855,075 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Then please explain what you are implying. There is no comparison between courageous people willing to fight and die for their rights -- and cowards who flee by the millions to another country expecting and “demanding” rights and privileges they are not entitled to. It is absurd for you to even make a comparison; and it is an affront to all who fought and died for the cause.

...

When was I comparing the civil rights movement with illegals??
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Old 09-06-2008, 07:16 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,909,669 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Then please explain what you are implying. There is no comparison between courageous people willing to fight and die for their rights -- and cowards who flee by the millions to another country expecting and “demanding” rights and privileges they are not entitled to. It is absurd for you to even make a comparison; and it is an affront to all who fought and died for the cause.
Agreed. It's yet another of their numerous attempts to hijack a thread, because their normal screams of "racists, you hate Mexicans", personal attacks and on and on . . . . are not effective.

It's time to add certain parties to your ignore list.
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Old 09-06-2008, 07:21 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 855,075 times
Reputation: 76
I've never made mention of anyone hating anything or anyone. I don't know where you guys got that notion from.
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:00 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,010,685 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Reality is often harsh and vile. It is not simply my “opinion” that many come here for the sole purpose of giving birth to a U.S. citizen, it is indeed a fact. Contrary to your ‘compassionate’ belief, not all illegal aliens are paragons of virtue.
No, it's the way you make it sound as if they ALL come here for that reason. Your generalization of an entire group of people is what makes you appear far from compassionate and somewhat hateful in the basis of your arguments. I've known many illegal immigrants growing up, and very few of them came here simply to have a baby who would gain US citizenship. They came here to escape poverty and horrendous living conditions and to make a better life for their family. Sure, some of these people take advantage of the system, but how can you sit there and put them all in the same camp - or even say with any confidence that the majority is doing this? That's an opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Nor do I believe an impoverished background is a prerequisite for having a kind heart.
No it's not. But from my experience, it creates a lot more understanding and compassion for another human being's struggle. Those who have been disconnected from the poor tend to treat people as statistics more than humans, especially when they're blaming them for something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
The fact that I vehemently oppose illegal immigration and the abuse and manipulation of the 14th Amendment, does not equate to being a mean-spirited or racist person. You, and no one else, will convince me otherwise.
That's becoming obvious. It's one thing to oppose it. It's the way you group them all in the same boat as being villains and vindictive that makes your arguments mean-spirited and seemingly hateful. You can usually tell the difference between someone who is saying something out of anger or outrage and someone who is mean-spirited and hateful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
We are both compassionate people. However, you have more compassion for illegal aliens, and I have more compassion for the citizens of this country who are unemployed, underemployed, victims of identity theft, victims and families of violent crimes........all due to massive illegal immigration. I feel no guilt for my position.
Oh I see, the mere fact that you stand where you do on this issue automatically means that you're standing up for our citizens and I'm not. No, the difference is, my compassion runs deep for everyone, not just one side or the other. And I refuse to buy into the scapegoat mentality and the witch hunt mob that people like you try and create. I can also relate to those who are unemployed, underemployed, victims of identity theft, victims and families of violent crimes. I know people who've suffered from each of those, hell, I'm one of them. But in none of the cases I've come across has the situation been tied to illegal immigration. It's so easy to blame problems on a group of people in hard times. It's more difficult to come up with solutions that are fair to everyone, especially those you cannot relate with or care little about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
How much “compassion” should we be expected to have?
As much as is required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
When will the citizens of this country be on the receiving end of compassion?
I think we have been. But being the richest nation in the world won't get us much sympathy from the rest of the world. We put ourselves in this situation with the officials we've elected. If we elected people who would represent the citizens and not the special interest groups or big corporations, things would likely be a bit different right now. But alas, that's a can of worms in itself.

Benicar, you seem well educated and you make good points. But you come off as very mean-spirited in your arguments. Not because of your stance, but because of how you say things.
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:12 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,010,685 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
There is no comparison between courageous people willing to fight and die for their rights -- and cowards who flee by the millions to another country
I didn't have to wait long to have my point proven again. So now you refer to them as cowards. So easy to pass judgment from where you're standing isn't it? The arrogance is almost stifling. The hatred for these people, palpable.


Quote:
and cowards who flee by the millions to another country
sort of like everyone else who came to America from all around the world? Or is it only cowardly when they come mostly from one country? And how come the refugees we allow from nations that are experiencing genocide are not cowards for standing up for their rights? Should we send them back?

Horrible. Simply horrible. I likely won't convince you that you're a terrible human being, but you've done more than enough to convince me, and I'm sure a few others.
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,673,551 times
Reputation: 3785
Close/lock our southern border.

Cancel birthright citizenship for Anchor Babies (grandfather in the existing ones but the parent will still need to leave)

Enforce our existing laws.

Need I say more?
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,178,106 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludachris View Post
I didn't have to wait long to have my point proven again. So now you refer to them as cowards. So easy to pass judgment from where you're standing isn't it? The arrogance is almost stifling. The hatred for these people, palpable.


sort of like everyone else who came to America from all around the world? Or is it only cowardly when they come mostly from one country? And how come the refugees we allow from nations that are experiencing genocide are not cowards for standing up for their rights? Should we send them back?

Horrible. Simply horrible. I likely won't convince you that you're a terrible human being, but you've done more than enough to convince me, and I'm sure a few others.
Judgmental much?
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,673,551 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludachris View Post
I didn't have to wait long to have my point proven again. So now you refer to them as cowards. So easy to pass judgment from where you're standing isn't it? The arrogance is almost stifling. The hatred for these people, palpable.


sort of like everyone else who came to America from all around the world? Or is it only cowardly when they come mostly from one country? And how come the refugees we allow from nations that are experiencing genocide are not cowards for standing up for their rights? Should we send them back?

Horrible. Simply horrible. I likely won't convince you that you're a terrible human being, but you've done more than enough to convince me, and I'm sure a few others.
If we are discussing Mexico: either they take back their citizens from the USA or said country becomes a part of the United States------------under our laws and the use of the Spanish language be phased out ASAP.
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