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View Poll Results: Public enemy number one in the war for our children?
Good thing 3 27.27%
Bad thing 8 72.73%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-07-2008, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,823,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Way to take the entire "racism" thing out of context. I never said I was a "practicing racist". I mentioned that we were "all racist", you should really read the article I showed you before you start assuming more.
Oh, ok.....you're not a “practicing” racist. Retired, or on hiatus?
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:57 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,007,886 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
The culture of the people of the United States of America is not static, it is a dynamic, ever changing thing, always has been and always will be. To think it should remain the way it is now would be very narrow minded, and would be disregarding the evolution of our culture.
I tend to agree with this. With all of the influence of early European immigrants, to all of the more recent South American immigrants, our culture has always been a mishmash of different cultures formed into one. And it probably will keep evolving over the years. Slavery is no longer around, women are able to vote, etc. This change with time, even if some want it to stay the same - and view it as being "threatened" for not staying the same. I find it a little amusing actually.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:00 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,752,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
This is exactly what I was going to say.....as I just mentioned yesterday, in EVERY case, there's a BIG difference in what your parents or gandparents once "did"...(or even in what YOU 'did', long ago) than in what is being "done" today. I can't understand why that seems to be such a sticking point.

Californio, if you're 'out there' somewhere, what does anyone's objection to today's illegal situation have to do with YOU, or your parents? I fail to see the connection. You're an American, and you're affected by illegal immigration, as an American. Am I missing something here?
Exactly correct. For example if someone came on here and said that since their grandfather stole cars or embezzled money, that those crimes must be acceptable.

My grandfather drove too fast, but does that mean all speeding and traffic laws must be left unenforced?

Who cares what someone's grandparents or great grandparents did or didn't do? That's the distant past that cannot be undone but it does not mean all the current laws must be changed to suit the deeds of any of our ancestors.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:04 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,752,909 times
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The past could certainly be used to justify a whole lot of things we cannot want.

What if someone's ancestor owned and sold slaves? Does that change anything at all on the issue of slavery? Slavery was once acceptable, all kinds of people benefitted. Those who try to justify uncontrolled illegal immigration by saying that people came from Europe and didn't have to follow the same kind of immigration laws as today would have to also say since slaves came by slave ships, it must be okay to do that today. Since most pro-illegals have that view because it's the ultra cheap labor they're after, it certainly wouldn't be any kind of leap for them to start justifying slavery.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:22 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,622,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
The past could certainly be used to justify a whole lot of things we cannot want.

What if someone's ancestor owned and sold slaves? Does that change anything at all on the issue of slavery? Slavery was once acceptable, all kinds of people benefitted. Those who try to justify uncontrolled illegal immigration by saying that people came from Europe and didn't have to follow the same kind of immigration laws as today would have to also say since slaves came by slave ships, it must be okay to do that today. Since most pro-illegals have that view because it's the ultra cheap labor they're after, it certainly wouldn't be any kind of leap for them to start justifying slavery.
This is true....people not only try to say "it happened that way THEN, so it should continue to happen the same way NOW" (which, of course, is often ludicrous), but they ALSO often conveniently forget what ELSE happened back "then".

"Back then" when Europeans arrived, they found themselves in a rough, tough, sink-or-swim world. There was unlimited 'manual labor' available, of course...but little or NO social 'support system'. In addition, there was INTENSE pressure to assimilate..so much so, that children were often embarrassed about their parents...the general culture pushed the newcomers to lose their 'foreign ways', and NOBODY celebrated their 'differences'..the idea was to MINIMIZE them.

The whole situation came very close to 'hazing'..that of a 'newcomer' trying to become an 'insider' (citizen) and having to 'jump through hoops' to achieve this prize. They willingly did this, because the 'prize' was seen as worth the struggle. American citizenship had a VERY powerful emotional component.

Contrast THAT with todays situation...no pressure to assimilate, 'come as you are', anything goes. Let's ALL celebrate and emphasize our differences, and don't let ANYONE tell you what you MUST do to become an American...because nobody has that 'right'. If you AREN'T a citizen?...heck, that's OK, too. Push for your rights ANYWAY. After all "we" have no right to keep "you" out, anyway...remember, America belongs to EVERYBODY...it's not a 'regular' country,(with all those pesky laws)... it's 'different'.

And we honestly think this is going to result in a viable, united society? HOW? WHY? United in what way? It's NUTS...but it sounds 'inclusive' and 'nice' and 'non-judgemental', and we 'want it to work'...so we convince ourselves it will. ANYONE can become an American, because there's no definition of what an American IS, or how one should 'act', or conduct ones self. Sounds like a fun idea in times of prosperity...but when things get rough?..I shudder to think.

Today, we have a 'controversy' over the fact that several million people are living here illegally, and have no intention of leaving? Really? What's the 'controversy'? They're illegally here, right? What am I not 'getting'? What's the 'controversy'?

It's not QUITE the way it was 'back then'. Not by a long shot.

Last edited by macmeal; 09-07-2008 at 03:33 PM..
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:28 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,999,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Oh, ok.....you're not a “practicing” racist. Retired, or on hiatus?
He's talking about preconceived notions people hold for others.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:33 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 853,463 times
Reputation: 76
At the end of the day, the future is inevitable. Mixed-babies are expected to triple.. and significant numbers of the population are likely to be of Latino descent. Case and point.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,643,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
At the end of the day, the future is inevitable. Mixed-babies are expected to triple.. and significant numbers of the population are likely to be of Latino descent. Case and point.
Not all 'Hispanics' are Indian/Mestizo..........I have met White Latinos/Hispanics who could not pass for 'Chicano' if their lives depended on it.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:39 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 853,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Not all 'Hispanics' are Indian/Mestizo..........I have met White Latinos/Hispanics who could not pass for 'Chicano' if their lives depended on it.
........................

I never said all Hispanics were indian/mestizo. I said of 'Latino descent'. Mexicans constitute for the largest number of White Hispanics anyway.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:40 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,999,351 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Not all 'Hispanics' are Indian/Mestizo..........I have met White Latinos/Hispanics who could not pass for 'Chicano' if their lives depended on it.
Yeah..we know...youve mentioned it.
But fact is, the majority, and growing majority at that, are indian/Mestizo.
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