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View Poll Results: Public enemy number one in the war for our children?
Good thing 3 27.27%
Bad thing 8 72.73%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-06-2008, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I don't know...I'm still not as confident as you, I guess. I just can't get over my fear of a huge, angry Amish Riot.....or a lot of "hex sign" grafitti apearing all over my neighborhood...or a "Trot-by Shooting"......or a violent "buggy-jacking" incident......those people are just SO DIFFERENT...(sigh)..I WISH I had your optimism. They ACT funny, they TALK funny, and they're NOT LIKE US.

Good point, comparing today's illegals with the Amish.
I sure can't see any differences in their behavior, now that you mention it. Neither ONE of them seems at ALL interested in assimilating.

Thanks for opening my eyes.
There simply is no end to the refusal by some to distinguish between legal immigrants and illegal aliens. We should not even have to concern ourselves with the rate of assimilation among illegal aliens. They simply have no right to be here.
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Texas for now, relocating to California soon!
115 posts, read 277,396 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
There simply is no end to the refusal by some to distinguish between legal immigrants and illegal aliens. We should not even have to concern ourselves with the rate of assimilation among illegal aliens. They simply have no right to be here.
I remember you and your pal telling me to go home just a few days ago. I guess you were against legal immigrants that day as well.
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberland View Post
I remember you and your pal telling me to go home just a few days ago. I guess you were against legal immigrants that day as well.
I have never opposed "legal" immigration. Please indicate where you have seen me state otherwise.
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Old 09-07-2008, 09:02 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,033,451 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
You know who's been here the longest and not assimilating? The Native Americans. Yes the British took their land, the people of today cannot be held responsible for that. For that matter, any injustice his/her ancestor may have caused does not make that person liable for another's situation.
You are right. But you know which population has an incredible amount of alcoholism and dire poverty? The Native Americans. I would hardly use thier situation to defend legal and illegal immigrants from mexicos refusal to assimiliate.
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Old 09-07-2008, 09:18 AM
 
1,474 posts, read 2,016,184 times
Reputation: 457
this is so seriously boring, now we have devolved to arguing over children's cartoons.................
Nothing to do what so ever with the original subject.

Pure bait ans switch.
Classical advertising.........................
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Old 09-07-2008, 09:27 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,018,519 times
Reputation: 1788
Please re-read macmeal's posts for something very similar to my POV, with the following exceptions.

I'm a female living in an L.A. neighborhood that has become predominantly foreign national, both legal and illegal, within the last decade and a half. The quality of life has plummeted, for genuine reasons I've listed before. I believe in doing rather than just complaining, so I'm active in Neighborhood Watch and other programs that have actually done some good for everyone here. "Culturally" I'm having more difficulty getting neighbors understand neighborhood activist improvements to their own lot in life because a) non-Americans have trouble relating to people working for the common good, i.e. "strangers," people outside of their immediate ethnicity, tribe or family, or b) I am female, and therefore completely dismissable as far as anything "important" is concerned. I am tiptoeing around a possible c) which would encompass utter contempt for people of the "g" word, gr---o. It doesn't matter how often I point to actual improvements we've made for their own neighborhood. They also like slum conditions mirroring their "home country."

There is a beneficent, kindlier MODERN American culture outside of Los Angeles, and we are determined to move back to this America when we are able. I am so tired of mean-spirited people who distrust if not out and out hate Americans citizens, whether born or naturalized, and me, for living in our own country with our own values. However cheangeable and elastic those values and cultural touchstones seem to stretch or vary regionally or politically, the U.S. at least tries for fairness and equality nowadays. Multi-racial is our America, not multi-cultural. How else can everyone be included in the American dream for the future as it has for the last several centuries? E Pluribus Unum, not vice versa.
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Old 09-07-2008, 11:15 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
Please re-read macmeal's posts for something very similar to my POV, with the following exceptions.

I'm a female living in an L.A. neighborhood that has become predominantly foreign national, both legal and illegal, within the last decade and a half. The quality of life has plummeted, for genuine reasons I've listed before. I believe in doing rather than just complaining, so I'm active in Neighborhood Watch and other programs that have actually done some good for everyone here. "Culturally" I'm having more difficulty getting neighbors understand neighborhood activist improvements to their own lot in life because a) non-Americans have trouble relating to people working for the common good, i.e. "strangers," people outside of their immediate ethnicity, tribe or family, or b) I am female, and therefore completely dismissable as far as anything "important" is concerned. I am tiptoeing around a possible c) which would encompass utter contempt for people of the "g" word, gr---o. It doesn't matter how often I point to actual improvements we've made for their own neighborhood. They also like slum conditions mirroring their "home country."

There is a beneficent, kindlier MODERN American culture outside of Los Angeles, and we are determined to move back to this America when we are able. I am so tired of mean-spirited people who distrust if not out and out hate Americans citizens, whether born or naturalized, and me, for living in our own country with our own values. However cheangeable and elastic those values and cultural touchstones seem to stretch or vary regionally or politically, the U.S. at least tries for fairness and equality nowadays. Multi-racial is our America, not multi-cultural. How else can everyone be included in the American dream for the future as it has for the last several centuries? E Pluribus Unum, not vice versa.
Brilliant post. To me, you've hit on the CLASSIC definition of the huge difference between First World and Third World cultures. Most of us don't like to even ADMIT this difference (it interferes with 'multiculturalism') let alone discuss it....but there it is, in your post.

The definition of a society having moved into a world-class "First World" status, is "The Ability to Put Aside Family and Tribal Loyalties and Obligations, and reach out into society and to put one's trust and faith in STRANGERS" Sounds like a 'no-brainer', yet, just as you say, Third World people find it virtually impossible to really "trust" anyone outside their circle of family, friends, or 'tribe'. As a result, in the third world, family bonds are very STRONG (sometimes suffocating), while any sense of being a "nation" is very weak.

A very basic difference, but makes an ENORMOUS difference on how life is lived, and how people regard each other, right down to the neighborhood level. It's something MOST Americans internalized generations ago...yet most of the world's population has yet to 'discover'.
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Old 09-07-2008, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Brilliant post. To me, you've hit on the CLASSIC definition of the huge difference between First World and Third World cultures. Most of us don't like to even ADMIT this difference (it interferes with 'multiculturalism') let alone discuss it....but there it is, in your post.

The definition of a society having moved into a world-class "First World" status, is "The Ability to Put Aside Family and Tribal Loyalties and Obligations, and reach out into society and to put one's trust and faith in STRANGERS" Sounds like a 'no-brainer', yet, just as you say, Third World people find it virtually impossible to really "trust" anyone outside their circle of family, friends, or 'tribe'. As a result, in the third world, family bonds are very STRONG (sometimes suffocating), while any sense of being a "nation" is very weak.

A very basic difference, but makes an ENORMOUS difference on how life is lived, and how people regard each other, right down to the neighborhood level. It's something MOST Americans internalized generations ago...yet most of the world's population has yet to 'discover'.
Short, sweet and to the point: especially what macmeal italicized and I underscored to show up in what I quoted.
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Old 09-07-2008, 11:24 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
Please re-read macmeal's posts for something very similar to my POV, with the following exceptions.

I'm a female living in an L.A. neighborhood that has become predominantly foreign national, both legal and illegal, within the last decade and a half. The quality of life has plummeted, for genuine reasons I've listed before. I believe in doing rather than just complaining, so I'm active in Neighborhood Watch and other programs that have actually done some good for everyone here. "Culturally" I'm having more difficulty getting neighbors understand neighborhood activist improvements to their own lot in life because a) non-Americans have trouble relating to people working for the common good, i.e. "strangers," people outside of their immediate ethnicity, tribe or family, or b) I am female, and therefore completely dismissable as far as anything "important" is concerned. I am tiptoeing around a possible c) which would encompass utter contempt for people of the "g" word, gr---o. It doesn't matter how often I point to actual improvements we've made for their own neighborhood. They also like slum conditions mirroring their "home country."

There is a beneficent, kindlier MODERN American culture outside of Los Angeles, and we are determined to move back to this America when we are able. I am so tired of mean-spirited people who distrust if not out and out hate Americans citizens, whether born or naturalized, and me, for living in our own country with our own values. However cheangeable and elastic those values and cultural touchstones seem to stretch or vary regionally or politically, the U.S. at least tries for fairness and equality nowadays. Multi-racial is our America, not multi-cultural. How else can everyone be included in the American dream for the future as it has for the last several centuries? E Pluribus Unum, not vice versa.
That's one of the big problems when there is no common language. People will not be able to understand one another but you're right, it goes way deeper than that. It's a type of tribalism, breaking this nation into separate tribes with the fastest growing tribe having no interest in what made our nation great. They just want the material things they see, they never wish to analyze how our nation came to be, have no interest in our history, culture, or language.

I've heard this kind of sentiment often. Resentment from immigrants because their children are being taught American history -- why should they care what a bunch of stupid white Pilgrims did or stupid white Founding Fathers wrote, when they have their own heroes such as Pancho Villa. It's all being turned racist -- Mexicans cling to their own raza and country, going with the Calderon statement: "Where there is a Mexican, there is Mexico".
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Old 09-07-2008, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
That's one of the big problems when there is no common language. People will not be able to understand one another but you're right, it goes way deeper than that. It's a type of tribalism, breaking this nation into separate tribes with the fastest growing tribe having no interest in what made our nation great. They just want the material things they see, they never wish to analyze how our nation came to be, have no interest in our history, culture, or language.

I've heard this kind of sentiment often. Resentment from immigrants because their children are being taught American history -- why should they care what a bunch of stupid white Pilgrims did or stupid white Founding Fathers wrote, when they have their own heroes such as Pancho Villa. It's all being turned racist -- Mexicans cling to their own raza and country, going with the Calderon statement: "Where there is a Mexican, there is Mexico".
America: love it or leave it.

Or; will it be necessary for the USA to finish what was started in 1848 and annex the rest of Mexico and start Americanizing it, rhetorically speaking? Such would be the death of the Spanish language among many other things.
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