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View Poll Results: Public enemy number one in the war for our children?
Good thing 3 27.27%
Bad thing 8 72.73%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-07-2008, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,173,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Wouldn't that be classified as a generalization?
Maybe, but it can also be described as TRUE.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:08 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
The problem is not YOU, it's the millions of aliens that AREN'T you...

This is exactly what I was going to say.....as I just mentioned yesterday, in EVERY case, there's a BIG difference in what your parents or gandparents once "did"...(or even in what YOU 'did', long ago) than in what is being "done" today. I can't understand why that seems to be such a sticking point.

Californio, if you're 'out there' somewhere, what does anyone's objection to today's illegal situation have to do with YOU, or your parents? I fail to see the connection. You're an American, and you're affected by illegal immigration, as an American. Am I missing something here?
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Do you think I lived in Mexico while I learned everything about America? I was in fact born here, hence me living everything I just said.
It changes nothing. I stand by my previous post. Perhaps you’re not grasping my concept of “living.” The physical location of your “learning” is irrelevant.

Furthermore, people learn things everyday; only to later forget. Moreover, we also learn things we do not agree with. Therefore, the mere fact that you “learned” how to be an American means absolutely nothing, if you don't live it.

How many people have "learned" how to teach, even earning degrees, who have never taught one day in a classroom? Does that negate the fact that they learned?
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:16 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,725 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
This is exactly what I was going to say.....as I just mentioned yesterday, in EVERY case, there's a BIG difference in what your parents or gandparents once "did"...(or even in what YOU 'did', long ago) than in what is being "done" today. I can't understand why that seems to be such a sticking point.

Californio, if you're 'out there' somewhere, what does anyone's objection to today's illegal situation have to do with YOU, or your parents? I fail to see the connection. You're an American, and you're affected by illegal immigration, as an American. Am I missing something here?
Perhaps you should take a look at whats going on here. The defamation of Mexican culture e.t.c. As a person of Mexican descent, that offends me. As I've said before I don't think race/ethnicity should be part of the argument at all. This is the exact reason why pro-illegal groups call anti-illegals racist in the first place. I don't care who they are or where they come from, but stick to my opinion of "illegal is illegal". People go on to say, "illegal is illegal.. but let me go and talk to you about Mexican culture and how this culture promotes crime." Also as I've said before, I am not advocating the breaking of our laws. I am advocating for a, as Benicar would say, "strengthened" Guest worker program that would reduce the need of people coming here illegally in the first place.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:17 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,725 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It changes nothing. I stand by my previous post. Perhaps you’re not grasping my concept of “living.” The physical location of your “learning” is irrelevant.

Furthermore, people learn things everyday; only to later forget. Moreover, we also learn things we do not agree with. Therefore, the mere fact that you “learned” how to be an American means absolutely nothing, if you don't live it.

How many people have "learned" how to teach, even earning degrees, who have never taught one day in a classroom? Does that negate the fact that they learned?
Are you trying to say I am Not an American?
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:23 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Perhaps you should take a look at whats going on here. The defamation of Mexican culture e.t.c. As a person of Mexican descent, that offends me. As I've said before I don't think race/ethnicity should be part of the argument at all. This is the exact reason why pro-illegal groups call anti-illegals racist in the first place. I don't care who they are or where they come from, but stick to my opinion of "illegal is illegal". People go on to say, "illegal is illegal.. but let me go and talk to you about Mexican culture and how this culture promotes crime." Also as I've said before, I am not advocating the breaking of our laws. I am advocating for a, as Benicar would say, "strengthened" Guest worker program that would reduce the need of people coming here illegally in the first place.

There IS a streak of racism in some of this, of course. And most of us can recognize that, and accept that it exists. However, some of it is due to the unique position of Mexican illegals as being not only hugely dominant in sheer numbers, but also the ONLY 'national group' among illegals who insists on having a loud 'platform' to express their criticism of the US, and their demands.

Racists can 'sour' a discussion, but it's not fair to then simply abandon the whole discussion as a 'racist issue'. Ignore the racists, hard as it may be. Their rantings aren't the main issue.

CULTURE, though? Yes, I'm going to have to be honest here...I DO see a certain gap between the culture of the poor and disenfranchised people of Mexico (the ones driven to leave and come here), and the American middle-class 'ideal'. And those cultural misunderstandings ARE contributing a big part of the hurt feelings and anger on this forum. People in different cultures just aren't on the 'same page' much of the time..and misunderstandings are inevitable.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Are you trying to say I am Not an American?
Did I accuse you of not being a U.S. citizen?

BTW, you have yet to respond to my question. Why would racism offend you; given the fact that you admitted to being raised to be racist, and consider it an intrinsic behavior?
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:28 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,725 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Did I accuse you of not being a U.S. citizen?

BTW, you have yet to respond to my question. Why would racism offend you; given the fact that you admitted to being raised to be racist, and consider it an intrinsic behavior?
Way to take the entire "racism" thing out of context. I never said I was a "practicing racist". I mentioned that we were "all racist", you should really read the article I showed you before you start assuming more.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:30 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,725 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
There IS a streak of racism in some of this, of course. And most of us can recognize that, and accept that it exists. However, some of it is due to the unique position of Mexican illegals as being not only hugely dominant in sheer numbers, but also the ONLY 'national group' among illegals who insists on having a loud 'platform' to express their criticism of the US, and their demands.

Racists can 'sour' a discussion, but it's not fair to then simply abandon the whole discussion as a 'racist issue'. Ignore the racists, hard as it may be. Their rantings aren't the main issue.

CULTURE, though? Yes, I'm going to have to be honest here...I DO see a certain gap between the culture of the poor and disenfranchised people of Mexico (the ones driven to leave and come here), and the American middle-class 'ideal'. And those cultural misunderstandings ARE contributing a big part of the hurt feelings and anger on this forum. People in different cultures just aren't on the 'same page' much of the time..and misunderstandings are inevitable.
Don't you think its kind of "brush off" John Tanton when they fund/operate major anti-immigration organizations?
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:33 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Don't you think its kind of "brush off" John Tanton when they fund/operate major anti-immigration organizations?
I was speaking in generalities. I'll admit I never even opened the link, and am not familiar with the guy. Only suggesting that his odious connections don't automatically negate all that he says.

I was ALSO referring to the not-so-subtle racism on this forum. It DOES exist, among a few posters....yet its presence should not serve to cancel the whole issue. Even a RACIST can be right sometimes....and when a racist speaks out against pedophiles, or terrorism, or car theives, we're probably going to agree with him, on THOSE issues. Doesn't mean we have to 'like' him, only that on some issues, he's right.
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