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Old 09-06-2008, 10:28 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,714,009 times
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The wording of this bothers me. I don't like the 'Actually Left the Mother to Die' part.
From what I have read, the illegal alien, Mr. Cordova, stayed with the boy from the time he came upon the accident until the next morning when he set out on foot for help. The area the accident occurred in is described as very remote. There was no vehicle traffic during the night and it was only when Mr. Cordova encountered two hunters after walking several miles that the police were alerted. The campground Christopher and his mother were driving to was 6 miles away and the nearest main road was 6 miles away in the other direction.
So here we had a situation where Mr. Cordova was walking along this very isolated road and he came upon an accident scene. He did not have a cell phone or any way of communicating with the outside world. The boy was out of the car, his mother was trapped inside calling for help. She was obviously seriously injured. The car was in a very precarious position partway down the slope. (The unstable position of the vehicle was a real concern for rescuers, this is noted in the police report. The vehicle had to be secured with ropes before it was safe for EMTs to enter and remove the mother's body.) It was 5 or 6 in the evening so there were only a few hours of daylight left (Nov.).
I don't honestly see what this guy could have done differently. He started a campfire in the hopes that someone would see it and find them but unfortunately, no one did. Maybe people feel he should have started walking, but he may not have been that familiar with the area himself. If you have no idea how close the nearest town or major road is, would it be a good idea to set off on foot? And realistically, what could he have done for the woman trapped in the car? They had to cut the car open to remove her body so it's not like he and her son could have somehow gotten her out. And even if they had been able to, she was obviously badly injured. She needed medical help right away and due to the remote location, it just wasn't available until it was too late. I doubt there is anything either of them could have done that would have made a difference.
This is a very tragic story. To imply that the man who stayed with the boy and did what he could under difficult circumstances should somehow be considered as having left his mother to die is simply wrong IMO.
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Old 09-06-2008, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,823,428 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
The wording of this bothers me. I don't like the 'Actually Left the Mother to Die' part.
From what I have read, the illegal alien, Mr. Cordova, stayed with the boy from the time he came upon the accident until the next morning when he set out on foot for help. The area the accident occurred in is described as very remote. There was no vehicle traffic during the night and it was only when Mr. Cordova encountered two hunters after walking several miles that the police were alerted. The campground Christopher and his mother were driving to was 6 miles away and the nearest main road was 6 miles away in the other direction.
So here we had a situation where Mr. Cordova was walking along this very isolated road and he came upon an accident scene. He did not have a cell phone or any way of communicating with the outside world. The boy was out of the car, his mother was trapped inside calling for help. She was obviously seriously injured. The car was in a very precarious position partway down the slope. (The unstable position of the vehicle was a real concern for rescuers, this is noted in the police report. The vehicle had to be secured with ropes before it was safe for EMTs to enter and remove the mother's body.) It was 5 or 6 in the evening so there were only a few hours of daylight left (Nov.).
I don't honestly see what this guy could have done differently. He started a campfire in the hopes that someone would see it and find them but unfortunately, no one did. Maybe people feel he should have started walking, but he may not have been that familiar with the area himself. If you have no idea how close the nearest town or major road is, would it be a good idea to set off on foot? And realistically, what could he have done for the woman trapped in the car? They had to cut the car open to remove her body so it's not like he and her son could have somehow gotten her out. And even if they had been able to, she was obviously badly injured. She needed medical help right away and due to the remote location, it just wasn't available until it was too late. I doubt there is anything either of them could have done that would have made a difference.
This is a very tragic story. To imply that the man who stayed with the boy and did what he could under difficult circumstances should somehow be considered as having left his mother to die is simply wrong IMO.
I would totally agree with you, if not for one aspect. He was able to reach the car to retrieve cookies and candy. Now, had he not been able to access the car, I would agree that there was nothing he could do for the woman. However, I find it disturbing that he didnít consider it too dangerous to enter the car to collect something to eat. If he felt safe enough to enter the car then, I simply donít understand why he couldnít have at least tried to assist or comfort the dying woman. Most likely, she would have died anyway. Iím simply disturbed that the woman had to suffer and die alone.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:04 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,999,351 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
The wording of this bothers me. I don't like the 'Actually Left the Mother to Die' part.
From what I have read, the illegal alien, Mr. Cordova, stayed with the boy from the time he came upon the accident until the next morning when he set out on foot for help. The area the accident occurred in is described as very remote. There was no vehicle traffic during the night and it was only when Mr. Cordova encountered two hunters after walking several miles that the police were alerted. The campground Christopher and his mother were driving to was 6 miles away and the nearest main road was 6 miles away in the other direction.
So here we had a situation where Mr. Cordova was walking along this very isolated road and he came upon an accident scene. He did not have a cell phone or any way of communicating with the outside world. The boy was out of the car, his mother was trapped inside calling for help. She was obviously seriously injured. The car was in a very precarious position partway down the slope. (The unstable position of the vehicle was a real concern for rescuers, this is noted in the police report. The vehicle had to be secured with ropes before it was safe for EMTs to enter and remove the mother's body.) It was 5 or 6 in the evening so there were only a few hours of daylight left (Nov.).
I don't honestly see what this guy could have done differently. He started a campfire in the hopes that someone would see it and find them but unfortunately, no one did. Maybe people feel he should have started walking, but he may not have been that familiar with the area himself. If you have no idea how close the nearest town or major road is, would it be a good idea to set off on foot? And realistically, what could he have done for the woman trapped in the car? They had to cut the car open to remove her body so it's not like he and her son could have somehow gotten her out. And even if they had been able to, she was obviously badly injured. She needed medical help right away and due to the remote location, it just wasn't available until it was too late. I doubt there is anything either of them could have done that would have made a difference.
This is a very tragic story. To imply that the man who stayed with the boy and did what he could under difficult circumstances should somehow be considered as having left his mother to die is simply wrong IMO.
Wow, Im impressed!
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Old 09-07-2008, 10:19 AM
 
Location: um....guess
10,479 posts, read 13,514,392 times
Reputation: 1825
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
The wording of this bothers me. I don't like the 'Actually Left the Mother to Die' part.
From what I have read, the illegal alien, Mr. Cordova, stayed with the boy from the time he came upon the accident until the next morning when he set out on foot for help. The area the accident occurred in is described as very remote. There was no vehicle traffic during the night and it was only when Mr. Cordova encountered two hunters after walking several miles that the police were alerted. The campground Christopher and his mother were driving to was 6 miles away and the nearest main road was 6 miles away in the other direction.
So here we had a situation where Mr. Cordova was walking along this very isolated road and he came upon an accident scene. He did not have a cell phone or any way of communicating with the outside world. The boy was out of the car, his mother was trapped inside calling for help. She was obviously seriously injured. The car was in a very precarious position partway down the slope. (The unstable position of the vehicle was a real concern for rescuers, this is noted in the police report. The vehicle had to be secured with ropes before it was safe for EMTs to enter and remove the mother's body.) It was 5 or 6 in the evening so there were only a few hours of daylight left (Nov.).
I don't honestly see what this guy could have done differently. He started a campfire in the hopes that someone would see it and find them but unfortunately, no one did. Maybe people feel he should have started walking, but he may not have been that familiar with the area himself. If you have no idea how close the nearest town or major road is, would it be a good idea to set off on foot? And realistically, what could he have done for the woman trapped in the car? They had to cut the car open to remove her body so it's not like he and her son could have somehow gotten her out. And even if they had been able to, she was obviously badly injured. She needed medical help right away and due to the remote location, it just wasn't available until it was too late. I doubt there is anything either of them could have done that would have made a difference.
This is a very tragic story. To imply that the man who stayed with the boy and did what he could under difficult circumstances should somehow be considered as having left his mother to die is simply wrong IMO.
I agree w/you, I see nowhere in this incident that he was at fault for the mother dying. That is a real stretch & pretty insulting as well.
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Old 09-07-2008, 10:25 AM
 
Location: um....guess
10,479 posts, read 13,514,392 times
Reputation: 1825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I would totally agree with you, if not for one aspect. He was able to reach the car to retrieve cookies and candy. Now, had he not been able to access the car, I would agree that there was nothing he could do for the woman. However, I find it disturbing that he didnít consider it too dangerous to enter the car to collect something to eat. If he felt safe enough to enter the car then, I simply donít understand why he couldnít have at least tried to assist or comfort the dying woman. Most likely, she would have died anyway. Iím simply disturbed that the woman had to suffer and die alone.
I don't recall seeing anything in the police report about the guy retrieving cookies & candy.
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Old 09-07-2008, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,823,428 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
I don't recall seeing anything in the police report about the guy retrieving cookies & candy.
It's not included in the police report. It was told to an Associated Press reporter by the illegal alien.

Quote:
This is what Cordova told Amanda Lee Myers of The Associated Press:

By the looks of the mangled van down below, Cordova said, it was obvious the boyís mother had died. The child was distraught but did not cry.

ďI felt frustrated and sad because I couldnít do anything for the mother,Ē Cordova said. ďAnd I didnít know how to console the boy, so I just sat next to him.Ē

Cordova gave the boy the sweater he was wearing, climbed down to the van and found chocolate and cookies to feed him.
Was Jesus Manuel Cordova really a hero? | Illegal Protest
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Old 09-07-2008, 11:15 AM
 
Location: um....guess
10,479 posts, read 13,514,392 times
Reputation: 1825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It's not included in the police report. It was told to an Associated Press reporter by the illegal alien.



Was Jesus Manuel Cordova really a hero? | Illegal Protest
I guess if I saw the actual article or heard the tape that proved that he said that, I would be inclined to believe it. As it is, that link has nothing to do w/the Associated Press, it's an anti-immigration forum or site.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:56 PM
 
307 posts, read 458,496 times
Reputation: 111
Your interpretation may be correct, However please consider this.

The AP news reporters are not infallible and may have misunderstood what he said. And I know that it is inconceivable but Cordova, who is not a native to this country nor does he speak our language well, may have been using words that did not mean what he thinks they mean. This would result in an incorrect picture.

Notice that the part you pasted (I placed it in bold) is not in quotation marks, as opposed to area right before it in quotation marks which means that Cordova not say that, but instead it is the interpretation of the reporter. Most certainly in no way does this mean he went INTO the van.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
This is what Cordova told Amanda Lee Myers of The Associated Press:

By the looks of the mangled van down below, Cordova said, it was obvious the boy’s mother had died. The child was distraught but did not cry.

“I felt frustrated and sad because I couldn’t do anything for the mother,” Cordova said. “And I didn’t know how to console the boy, so I just sat next to him.”

Cordova gave the boy the sweater he was wearing, climbed down to the van and found chocolate and cookies to feed him.
What may well have happened is Cordova told the reporter. "I gave the boy my suťter a present from my Aunt on my 23rd birthday. I climbed down towards the car and found a half opened pack of galletas and candy scattered on the ground. I brought them back for the child to eat because he looked hungry."

He doesn't mention that the candy was scattered 300 feet from the vehicle. Nor does he mention that as he tried to get closer he almost fell to his death and turned back. After all he "thinks" this was a cowardly thing to do and is ashamed to mention it. He thinks a real man would have kept going.

The reporter then compressed the description given to him by Cordova into "Cordova gave the boy the sweater he was wearing, climbed down to the van and found chocolate and cookies to feed him."

I tend to believe that is the case. Logic says that for whatever reason he was willing to save the boy, the same reasoning would apply for saving the woman. Unless it was impossible to save the mother.

This is further supported by the fact that the rescuers and EMTs "could not get close to the vehicle because it was unstable and on a tree". Are we supposed to believe that an Illegal did a job an American won't do? I don't think so.

Without any evidence to the contrary I give people the benefit of the doubt, and in this case he has already shown he was willing to take at least one big step towards helping a stranger. Sadly, he did far more then most people in the world are willing to do.

Random

Last edited by RandomU; 09-07-2008 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,823,428 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
I guess if I saw the actual article or heard the tape that proved that he said that, I would be inclined to believe it. As it is, that link has nothing to do w/the Associated Press, it's an anti-immigration forum or site.
It should be easy enough to verify by contacting AP or the reporter. If I had the time today, I'd check into it myself. I certainly hope this isn't a lie created to defame this guy. Perhaps someone else has more info.
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,823,428 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomU View Post
Your interpretation may be correct, However please consider this.

The AP news reporters are not infallible and may have misunderstood what he said. And I know that it is inconceivable but Cordova, who is not a native to this country or the language, may have been using words that did not mean what he thinks they mean. This would result in an incorrect picture.

Notice that the part you pasted (I placed it in bold) is not in quotation marks, as opposed to area right before it in quotation marks which denote that is what he said to the reporter.



That means that Cordova very well did not say any such thing, but instead it is the interpretation of the reporter. And most certainly in no way does this mean he went INTO the van.

What may well have happened is Cordova told the reporter. "I gave the boy my sweater a present from my Aunt on my 23rd birthday. I climbed down towards the van and found the cookies and candy scattered on the ground. I brought them back for the child."

He doesn't mention that the candy was scattered 300 feet from the vehicle. Nor does he mention that as he tried to get closer he almost fell to his death and turned back. After all he "thinks" this was a cowardly thing to do and is ashamed to mention it. He thinks a real man would have kept going.

The reporter then compressed the description given to him by Cordova into "Cordova gave the boy the sweater he was wearing, climbed down to the van and found chocolate and cookies to feed him."

I tend to believe that is the case. Logic says that for whatever reason he was willing to save the boy, the same reasoning would apply for saving the woman. Unless it was impossible to save the mother.

This is further supported by the fact that the police couldn't send EMTs down there. Are we supposed to believe that an Illegal did a job an American won't do? I don't think so.

Without any evidence to the contrary I give people the benefit of the doubt, and in this case he has already shown he was willing to take at least one big step towards helping a stranger. Sadly, he did far more then most people in the world are willing to do.

Random
I posted before I saw this. Thanks for providing additional info. He did indeed save the boy's life, and I donít have a problem admitting a mistake in judgment. I stand corrected.
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