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Old 09-07-2008, 05:19 PM
 
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I personally would not make a decision if someone were a racist or not based on Wikipedia-but then again that may just be me.
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
And now Wiki is considered an accurate source? When anyone can type anything on their pages?
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:21 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 852,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
I personally would not make a decision if someone were a racist or not based on Wikipedia-but then again that may just be me.
Do you want sources on everything that was posted?

1. ^ Lombardo, Paul A. (2002). "The American Breed": Nazi Eugenics and the Origins of the Pioneer Fund. Albany Law Review, vol. 65, p. 743
Rushton, J. Philippe (2002). The Pioneer Fund and the Scientific Study of Human Differences. Albany Law Review 66:209.
Lombardo, Paul A. (2002). Pioneer's Big Lie. Albany Law Review, vol. 66, p. 207
2. ^ Southern Poverty Law Center Map of Hate Organizatons. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
3. ^ a b c Berlet, Chip. Into the Mainstream: An array of right-wing foundations and think tanks support efforts to make bigoted and discredited ideas respectable. Intelligence Report, Southern Poverty Law Center. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
4. ^ [1] Critics of the fund include the SPLC, IQ critic William H. Tucker, and historian Barry Mehler and his Institute for the Study of Academic Racism. Researchers who have been the subject of criticism for accepting grants from the fund have long argued the public debates have been disconnected from the expert debates. Robert A. Gordon, for example, replied to media criticisms of grant-recipients: "Politically correct disinformation about science appears to spread like wildfire among literary intellectuals and other nonspecialists, who have few disciplinary constraints on what they say about science and about particular scientists and on what they allow themselves to believe,"(Gordon 1997, p.35)
5. ^ The Science of Human Diversity: A History of the Pioneer Fund, Richard Lynn, Rowman & Littlefield 2001, ISBN 0-7618-2041-8 pp. 3–19.)
6. ^ Pioneer Fund FoundersRetrieved April 11, 2007.
7. ^ a b c d e f Tucker, William H (2002). The Funding of Scientific Racism: Wickliffe Draper and the Pioneer Fund. University of Illinois Press. ISBN 0-252-02762-0
8. ^ May, R. W. (May 14, 1960). "Genetics and Subversion." The Nation 190:421.
9. ^ Osborn, Frederick (24 February 1937). 'Summary of the proceedings' of the Conference on Eugenics in Relation to Nursing. American Eugenics Society Archives.
10. ^ a b Mehler, Barry (1989).Foundation for Fascism: the New Eugenics Movement in the United States. Patterns of Prejudice, vol. 23, no. 4.
11. ^ Crawford, James (1993). Hold Your Tongue: Bilingualism and the Politics of "English Only." Addison Wesley Publishing Company, ISBN 978-0201624793
12. ^ a b Pioneer Fund. Founders and Former Directors. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
13. ^ Begos, Kevin (December 11, 2002). Benefactor With a Racist Bent: Wealthy recluse apparently liked the looks and potential of Bowman Gray's new medical-genetics department. Winston-Salem Journal
14. ^ Lichtenstein, Grace (December 11, 1977). Fund Backs Controversial Study of "Racial Betterment." New York Times
15. ^ Mehler, Barry. Pioneer Fund Grant Totals, 1971-1996. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
16. ^ a b c d Mehler, Barry (July 7, 1998). Race Science and the Pioneer Fund Originally published as "The Funding of the Science" in Searchlight, No. 277.
17. ^ Tucker, William H. [http://www.press.uillinois.edu/epub/books/tucker/concl.html (broken link) Conclusion: Pioneer or Pamphleteer] The Funding of Scientific Racism: Wickliffe Draper and the Pioneer Fund.
18. ^ The Journal of Indo-European Studies via A. Richard Diebold Center for Indo-European Language and Culture.
19. ^ "The Anti-Immigration Movement: From Shovels to Suits" Solana Larsen. NACLA Report on the Americas. New York: May/Jun 2007. Vol. 40, Iss. 3; pg. 14, 5 pgs
20. ^ Lombardo, P. [http://www.albanylawreview.org/archi...ioneerFund.pdf “THE AMERICAN BREED: NAZI EUGENICS AND THE ORIGINS OF THE PIONEER FUND"] Retrieved May 21, 2008. Albany Law Review
21. ^ "Pro-Prop. 187 group admits it bought ads POLITICS: FAIR says it only attempted to clear its name." MARILYN KALFUS: The Orange County Register. Orange County Register. Santa Ana, Calif.: Oct 26, 1994. pg. A.12
22. ^ "White Supremacist Link Trips Prop. 187" Pamela Burdman, Chronicle Staff Writer. San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco, Calif.: Oct 13, 1994. pg. A.4
23. ^ "Cannon critics sidestep FEC lists" Deborah Bulkeley Deseret Morning News. Deseret News. Salt Lake City, Utah: Jul 17, 2004. pg. B.01
24. ^ "'Workers, go home!'" David L Ostendorf. The Christian Century. Chicago: Dec 19-Dec 26, 2001. Vol. 118, Iss. 35; pg. 8, 2 pgs
25. ^ http://www.eugenics-watch.com/intro.html
26. ^ bethuneinstitute.org
27. ^ Dr. Josef Mengele, ruthless Nazi concentration camp doctor - The Crime Library - The Crime library
28. ^ Southern Poverty Law Center Race and 'Reason'; Academic ideas a pillar of racist thought. Retrieved April 15, 2008.
29. ^ SPLCenter.org: Race and 'Reason'
30. ^ Defend Colorado Now: Lamm & FAIR
31. ^ a b http://www.press.uillinois.edu/epub/books/tucker/intro.html (broken link)
32. ^ ISAR
33. ^ Murray, Charles (May 1995). "The Bell Curve" and its critics. Commentary, v99 n5 p23(8).
34. ^ Patricia Ohman (7 March 1984). Do they get what they Pay for? Minneapolis City Pages, p. 8.
35. ^ Hunt, Morton (1998). The New Know-Nothings: The Political Foes of the Scientific Study of Human Nature Transaction Publishers: ISBN 0-7658-0497-2
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:23 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,173,371 times
Reputation: 2728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
If they wanted to silence talk radio, why not Lou Dobbs? Lou Dobbs is a big proponent in the fight against illegal immigration in the mainstream media.
I was talking about the Fairness Doctrine which goes after talk radio. Lou has a show and although he has recently delved into a radio show-hardly any stations have it on. Many groups go after Lou all the time- I do not know if this group has or has not gone after him
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:25 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,173,371 times
Reputation: 2728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Do you want sources on everything that was posted?

1. ^ Lombardo, Paul A. (2002). "The American Breed": Nazi Eugenics and the Origins of the Pioneer Fund. Albany Law Review, vol. 65, p. 743
Rushton, J. Philippe (2002). The Pioneer Fund and the Scientific Study of Human Differences. Albany Law Review 66:209.
Lombardo, Paul A. (2002). Pioneer's Big Lie. Albany Law Review, vol. 66, p. 207
2. ^ Southern Poverty Law Center Map of Hate Organizatons. Retrieved July 16, 2006. 3. ^ a b c Berlet, Chip. Into the Mainstream: An array of right-wing foundations and think tanks support efforts to make bigoted and discredited ideas respectable. Intelligence Report, Southern Poverty Law Center. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
4. ^ [1] Critics of the fund include the SPLC, IQ critic William H. Tucker, and historian Barry Mehler and his Institute for the Study of Academic Racism. Researchers who have been the subject of criticism for accepting grants from the fund have long argued the public debates have been disconnected from the expert debates. Robert A. Gordon, for example, replied to media criticisms of grant-recipients: "Politically correct disinformation about science appears to spread like wildfire among literary intellectuals and other nonspecialists, who have few disciplinary constraints on what they say about science and about particular scientists and on what they allow themselves to believe,"(Gordon 1997, p.35)
5. ^ The Science of Human Diversity: A History of the Pioneer Fund, Richard Lynn, Rowman & Littlefield 2001, ISBN 0-7618-2041-8 pp. 3–19.)
6. ^ Pioneer Fund FoundersRetrieved April 11, 2007.
7. ^ a b c d e f Tucker, William H (2002). The Funding of Scientific Racism: Wickliffe Draper and the Pioneer Fund. University of Illinois Press. ISBN 0-252-02762-0
8. ^ May, R. W. (May 14, 1960). "Genetics and Subversion." The Nation 190:421.
9. ^ Osborn, Frederick (24 February 1937). 'Summary of the proceedings' of the Conference on Eugenics in Relation to Nursing. American Eugenics Society Archives.
10. ^ a b Mehler, Barry (1989).Foundation for Fascism: the New Eugenics Movement in the United States. Patterns of Prejudice, vol. 23, no. 4.
11. ^ Crawford, James (1993). Hold Your Tongue: Bilingualism and the Politics of "English Only." Addison Wesley Publishing Company, ISBN 978-0201624793
12. ^ a b Pioneer Fund. Founders and Former Directors. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
13. ^ Begos, Kevin (December 11, 2002). Benefactor With a Racist Bent: Wealthy recluse apparently liked the looks and potential of Bowman Gray's new medical-genetics department. Winston-Salem Journal
14. ^ Lichtenstein, Grace (December 11, 1977). Fund Backs Controversial Study of "Racial Betterment." New York Times
15. ^ Mehler, Barry. Pioneer Fund Grant Totals, 1971-1996. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
16. ^ a b c d Mehler, Barry (July 7, 1998). Race Science and the Pioneer Fund Originally published as "The Funding of the Science" in Searchlight, No. 277.
17. ^ Tucker, William H. [http://www.press.uillinois.edu/epub/books/tucker/concl.html (broken link) Conclusion: Pioneer or Pamphleteer] The Funding of Scientific Racism: Wickliffe Draper and the Pioneer Fund.
18. ^ The Journal of Indo-European Studies via A. Richard Diebold Center for Indo-European Language and Culture.
19. ^ "The Anti-Immigration Movement: From Shovels to Suits" Solana Larsen. NACLA Report on the Americas. New York: May/Jun 2007. Vol. 40, Iss. 3; pg. 14, 5 pgs
20. ^ Lombardo, P. [http://www.albanylawreview.org/archi...ioneerFund.pdf “THE AMERICAN BREED: NAZI EUGENICS AND THE ORIGINS OF THE PIONEER FUND"] Retrieved May 21, 2008. Albany Law Review
21. ^ "Pro-Prop. 187 group admits it bought ads POLITICS: FAIR says it only attempted to clear its name." MARILYN KALFUS: The Orange County Register. Orange County Register. Santa Ana, Calif.: Oct 26, 1994. pg. A.12
22. ^ "White Supremacist Link Trips Prop. 187" Pamela Burdman, Chronicle Staff Writer. San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco, Calif.: Oct 13, 1994. pg. A.4
23. ^ "Cannon critics sidestep FEC lists" Deborah Bulkeley Deseret Morning News. Deseret News. Salt Lake City, Utah: Jul 17, 2004. pg. B.01
24. ^ "'Workers, go home!'" David L Ostendorf. The Christian Century. Chicago: Dec 19-Dec 26, 2001. Vol. 118, Iss. 35; pg. 8, 2 pgs
25. ^ http://www.eugenics-watch.com/intro.html
26. ^ bethuneinstitute.org
27. ^ Dr. Josef Mengele, ruthless Nazi concentration camp doctor - The Crime Library - The Crime library
28. ^ Southern Poverty Law Center Race and 'Reason'; Academic ideas a pillar of racist thought. Retrieved April 15, 2008.
29. ^ SPLCenter.org: Race and 'Reason'
30. ^ Defend Colorado Now: Lamm & FAIR
31. ^ a b http://www.press.uillinois.edu/epub/books/tucker/intro.html (broken link)
32. ^ ISAR
33. ^ Murray, Charles (May 1995). "The Bell Curve" and its critics. Commentary, v99 n5 p23(8).
34. ^ Patricia Ohman (7 March 1984). Do they get what they Pay for? Minneapolis City Pages, p. 8.
35. ^ Hunt, Morton (1998). The New Know-Nothings: The Political Foes of the Scientific Study of Human Nature Transaction Publishers: ISBN 0-7658-0497-2

Without even looking at all the sources-Source 2 is SPLC which is 100% non-credible to me and to others. They have an agenda and don't even try to hide it. I see other footnotes to the SPLC as well.
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,996 times
Reputation: 391
In his own words about the Pioneer Fund...

Quote:
Since the single biggest rap against me is that FAIR accepted money from the Pioneer Fund, I'll tackle that one head on. Understanding this charge requires a brief detour into the age-old debate over the relative roles of Nature (Heredity) and Nurture (Environment) in human outcomes. With the publication of Darwin's Origin of Species in 1859, the pendulum swung strongly toward the "nature" side of the equation. By the early 1900s, it had swung equally strongly in the opposite direction. The Pioneer Fund was started in 1937 by individuals who still believed that "nature" (genetics) played a major – perhaps even a dominant role. To the displeasure of their opponents, they pursued this proposition by funding university-based studies of identical twins reared apart, now a standard genetic research technique. These showed that nature and nurture each played about a fifty-percent role. The debate continues beyond the publication of The Bell Curve, with the federally funded Human Genome Project. It would take a bold person indeed to predict exactly where the question of the relative roles of Nature vs. Nurture will eventually settle out. Some of my opponents object to these studies, and have transferred their objections to me and immigration policy questions.

In the meantime, I'm comfortable being in the company of other Pioneer Fund grantees such as Johns Hopkins University, Cornell Medical School, Brandeis University, University of California-Berkeley, the University of London and the University of Tel Aviv, among others. For a fuller list, see Appendix A.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander: if the character of a donor is to become a criterion for accepting grants, we are entitled to ask after the chief source of funds for the open borders crowd, namely the Ford Foundation. Henry Ford is well-remembered for his anti-Jewish attitudes and actions. It took a court order to stop him from publishing The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, which some claim is one of the most anti-Jewish books of all time (and which has been revived and circulated among some radical Hispanic groups that advocate open immigration).

Mr. Ford was also no friend of the union movement – recall the Battle of the Overpass with the United Auto Workers (UAW) at one of his factories. One would think such a history might poison the Ford Foundation as a source of grants for the open borders lobby. Not so: the five main open-borders groups accepted $57 million in grants from the Ford Foundation between 1968-1999. This compares with $1.5 million that FAIR received from Pioneer, between 1982-1993, all of it unrestricted as to use. Click here for a listing of these Ford Foundation grants. Click here for a list of sixty-two open-border organizations funded by the Ford Foundation (see italicized list on page 2 of this article, entitled "The Open-Borders Conspiracy", By Robert Locke, FrontPageMagazine.com, 7/15/2002). (For more on the excellent series of front-page magazine articles from which this article is drawn, see End Note No. 4.)

The most important thing that needs to be said about FAIR's association with the Pioneer Fund – and this is true for every funding source that has financed the organization since its inception in 1979 – is that the money was used for purposes and projects that were determined solely by FAIR's board of directors, not by the donor. The money that FAIR received from Pioneer and from literally dozens of other charitable foundations has been used to promote the organization's goals of ending mass immigration and controlling massive illegal immigration to the United States.
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:29 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 852,550 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
Without even looking at all the sources-Source 2 is SPLC which is 100% non-credible to me and to others. They have an agenda and don't even try to hide it. I see other footnotes to the SPLC as well.

After closer inspection it turns out only a mere three are from SPLC.
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:34 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,173,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
After closer inspection it turns out only a mere three are from SPLC.
Three too many. Also #22- a writer from the pro-illegal San Francsco chronice using the words White Supremacist and Prop 187 in the title. Hmmm I wonder if there was an agenda there.

3 footnotes from the SPLC tells me that the person writing this blog or article has an agenda. Anyone who wanted to look at the facts fairly would not use them as a source. I don't need to take the time and look at the other 33 links and footnotes to know this is biased.

I have no doubts that there are racists on both side of this debate. I also know that there are racists who would like to promote their causes under the guise of this debate. However- I have also learned that if someone wants borders secured and laws enforced-there are many ready to jump on the bandwagon and call them racists as well. Just because the SPLC and Wiki call someone a racist does not make it so. Many times the race card is used to stifle debate and take away from the fact that illegal is illegal. I need unbiased proof not the SPLC and a think tank who have agendas.

Last edited by nicolem; 09-07-2008 at 05:50 PM..
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:59 PM
 
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Read the entire page. It does not prove he is a racist any more then Obama's ties to Reverend Wright or John McCain's funding by radical Christians prove they are Racists.

It means they associate as a matter of business and politics with certain individuals who they may well not want in their home but will further the causes or business's they are involved in. It may even Show poor judgement and business or political sense. It shows nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Most Americans have never heard of John Tanton because he operates behind the scenes, but he is the founder and/or early founder of almost every national anti-immigrant organization in the country, including at least a dozen groups
He operates behind the scenes. So do most business men and many politicians. That shows he’s a Racist HOW?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
The Tanton-owned Social Contract Press publishes the views of white nationalists such as John Vinson, including a gem about how God prefers racial separation. Tanton also publishes Camp of the Saints, a racist screed that uses fiction to warn white Europeans about an impending invasion of immigrants from India who will overrun the government, kidnap white women and make them into prostitutes.
Could not find the article, however in reviewing the publication mentioned the VERY FIRST article ever published in FALL 1990 was by an African American.

The Social Contract - Fall 1990

Furthermore, this is a journal/ publishing house. An article published in a journal does not mean the publisher agrees with it. That’s begging the question that I have not read the article your link refers to and it may or may not have racist elements.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
You remember eugenics; it's best-known proponents were the Nazis who tried to demonstrate the power of this pseudo-science by executing millions of Jews, disabled people, and others who did not meet their views of racial purity. A visit to the Pioneer Fund's website is a walk back in time, and not a pleasant one. It contains biographies of board members and grant recipient scholars who support such ideas as black people having smaller brains than people of European or Asian descent, and women being genetically predisposed to have lower IQs than men.
No where does it show that he believes these points. Just that he received funding from people who believe these. By that Logic Obama, McCain, Clinton, Bush, and probably EVERY politician out there is a Racist as they have all recieved funding from racist groups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Similarly, NumbersUSA and FAIR do not distance themselves from the racist leadership of the AICF family of organizations.
That’s NumbersUSA and FAIR. NOT TANTON. Please show that 1) The accusation that they don’t distance themselves is true (No proof is offered). 2) That Tanton AT THE TIME of this supposed incident was involved with it. 3) That he was aware of it.

Your post seems to be all about who he knows and what the groups he knows MAY have said or done. Not what he has said or done!

What is the difference between him and Obama, McCain, Romney and Ron Paul?

Random
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:05 PM
 
638 posts, read 1,638,378 times
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A Need for Conservation
Dr. John Tanton
Topic 1 of 23?

YouTube - Dr. John Tanton Topic 1: A Need for Conservation
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