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Old 09-07-2008, 06:11 PM
 
307 posts, read 458,164 times
Reputation: 111

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Please read this post again. It gives examples of what we are looking for. Using Wikipedia as a source, or spamming the entire list of Wiki's sources proves nothing. Throwing a ton of Excrement against the wall in the hopes that something will stick or that we will be to overwhelmed to go through it all won’t work! Grab a hold of your claim and connect the evidence from point A > B > C to D and use sources that would at least be accepted in school, let alone a REAL DEBATE.


Original post.

Californio, you keep trying to use sources that don’t say what you claim, the sources are shown to be false, or the source is so long one can’t find your claim in it. This is why you are being asked for them.

Case in point is this post I responded to where you tried to claim Immigrants were not costing America more then they produce. Your own source you finally provided said that they did!!!

http://www.city-data.com/forum/immig...ml#post5154749

Or this post where you tried to suggest that because your sorce said there are “579,974 REGISTERED sex offenders", that 579,974 is the sum total of all sex offenders in America both registered and unregistered.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/immig...ml#post4957725

If you want to be taken seriously then an example of what many here are requesting follows.


Quote:
Here is proof that Tanton is a white supremacist.

According to Tanton’s own web site <Address of Hypothetical Website here> He is a member of an infamous group called "Council of Conservative Citizens. As can be seen by this post on the CoCC it says “All $#@% must die and their stain upon this great nation purged”.
That as recent events have shown the argument can be made that just because you are part of group where some members spout certain beliefs is not PROOF that you believe such beliefs.

A better source would be

Quote:
This FOX NEWS interview, look at the 15:37 minute mark, from 1998 shows Trenton as the Racist he is <Address of Hypothetical Website with video FROM FOX NEWS> shows Trenton saying “%^&*$ should be rounded up like the Jews in 1939!!!", while wearing Swastika and goose stepping around the stage with Bill OReily!
Notice that in the first exmple the quote establishes our claim AND just as importantly allows those who want to find it to use their browsers search command instead of reading 82 pages of stuff which has no bearing on our claim.

As it is you do little to support your cause, reduce your online reputation with those who are neutral on the subject, and lessen the chance of anyone aside from a few on your own side from listening to you. Mind you, there are others on your side doing the same thing as well as those on the Anti Illegal side who fail to provide sources.

I just find it annoying, that I start to read what I hope will be a good thread only to find out it is the same baseless accusations.

Random


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Do you want sources on everything that was posted?

1. ^ Lombardo, Paul A. (2002). "The American Breed": Nazi Eugenics and the Origins of the Pioneer Fund. Albany Law Review, vol. 65, p. 743
Rushton, J. Philippe (2002). The Pioneer Fund and the Scientific Study of Human Differences. Albany Law Review 66:209.
Lombardo, Paul A. (2002). Pioneer's Big Lie. Albany Law Review, vol. 66, p. 207
2. ^ Southern Poverty Law Center Map of Hate Organizatons. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
3. ^ a b c Berlet, Chip. Into the Mainstream: An array of right-wing foundations and think tanks support efforts to make bigoted and discredited ideas respectable. Intelligence Report, Southern Poverty Law Center. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
4. ^ [1] Critics of the fund include the SPLC, IQ critic William H. Tucker, and historian Barry Mehler and his Institute for the Study of Academic Racism. Researchers who have been the subject of criticism for accepting grants from the fund have long argued the public debates have been disconnected from the expert debates. Robert A. Gordon, for example, replied to media criticisms of grant-recipients: "Politically correct disinformation about science appears to spread like wildfire among literary intellectuals and other nonspecialists, who have few disciplinary constraints on what they say about science and about particular scientists and on what they allow themselves to believe,"(Gordon 1997, p.35)
5. ^ The Science of Human Diversity: A History of the Pioneer Fund, Richard Lynn, Rowman & Littlefield 2001, ISBN 0-7618-2041-8 pp. 3–19.)
6. ^ Pioneer Fund FoundersRetrieved April 11, 2007.
7. ^ a b c d e f Tucker, William H (2002). The Funding of Scientific Racism: Wickliffe Draper and the Pioneer Fund. University of Illinois Press. ISBN 0-252-02762-0
8. ^ May, R. W. (May 14, 1960). "Genetics and Subversion." The Nation 190:421.
9. ^ Osborn, Frederick (24 February 1937). 'Summary of the proceedings' of the Conference on Eugenics in Relation to Nursing. American Eugenics Society Archives.
10. ^ a b Mehler, Barry (1989).Foundation for Fascism: the New Eugenics Movement in the United States. Patterns of Prejudice, vol. 23, no. 4.
11. ^ Crawford, James (1993). Hold Your Tongue: Bilingualism and the Politics of "English Only." Addison Wesley Publishing Company, ISBN 978-0201624793
12. ^ a b Pioneer Fund. Founders and Former Directors. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
13. ^ Begos, Kevin (December 11, 2002). Benefactor With a Racist Bent: Wealthy recluse apparently liked the looks and potential of Bowman Gray's new medical-genetics department. Winston-Salem Journal
14. ^ Lichtenstein, Grace (December 11, 1977). Fund Backs Controversial Study of "Racial Betterment." New York Times
15. ^ Mehler, Barry. Pioneer Fund Grant Totals, 1971-1996. Retrieved July 16, 2006.
16. ^ a b c d Mehler, Barry (July 7, 1998). Race Science and the Pioneer Fund Originally published as "The Funding of the Science" in Searchlight, No. 277.
17. ^ Tucker, William H. [http://www.press.uillinois.edu/epub/books/tucker/concl.html (broken link) Conclusion: Pioneer or Pamphleteer] The Funding of Scientific Racism: Wickliffe Draper and the Pioneer Fund.
18. ^ The Journal of Indo-European Studies via A. Richard Diebold Center for Indo-European Language and Culture.
19. ^ "The Anti-Immigration Movement: From Shovels to Suits" Solana Larsen. NACLA Report on the Americas. New York: May/Jun 2007. Vol. 40, Iss. 3; pg. 14, 5 pgs
20. ^ Lombardo, P. [http://www.albanylawreview.org/archi...ioneerFund.pdf “THE AMERICAN BREED: NAZI EUGENICS AND THE ORIGINS OF THE PIONEER FUND"] Retrieved May 21, 2008. Albany Law Review
21. ^ "Pro-Prop. 187 group admits it bought ads POLITICS: FAIR says it only attempted to clear its name." MARILYN KALFUS: The Orange County Register. Orange County Register. Santa Ana, Calif.: Oct 26, 1994. pg. A.12
22. ^ "White Supremacist Link Trips Prop. 187" Pamela Burdman, Chronicle Staff Writer. San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco, Calif.: Oct 13, 1994. pg. A.4
23. ^ "Cannon critics sidestep FEC lists" Deborah Bulkeley Deseret Morning News. Deseret News. Salt Lake City, Utah: Jul 17, 2004. pg. B.01
24. ^ "'Workers, go home!'" David L Ostendorf. The Christian Century. Chicago: Dec 19-Dec 26, 2001. Vol. 118, Iss. 35; pg. 8, 2 pgs
25. ^ http://www.eugenics-watch.com/intro.html
26. ^ bethuneinstitute.org
27. ^ Dr. Josef Mengele, ruthless Nazi concentration camp doctor - The Crime Library - The Crime library
28. ^ Southern Poverty Law Center Race and 'Reason'; Academic ideas a pillar of racist thought. Retrieved April 15, 2008.
29. ^ SPLCenter.org: Race and 'Reason'
30. ^ Defend Colorado Now: Lamm & FAIR
31. ^ a b http://www.press.uillinois.edu/epub/books/tucker/intro.html (broken link)
32. ^ ISAR
33. ^ Murray, Charles (May 1995). "The Bell Curve" and its critics. Commentary, v99 n5 p23(8).
34. ^ Patricia Ohman (7 March 1984). Do they get what they Pay for? Minneapolis City Pages, p. 8.
35. ^ Hunt, Morton (1998). The New Know-Nothings: The Political Foes of the Scientific Study of Human Nature Transaction Publishers: ISBN 0-7658-0497-2
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Eugenics.. Nothing more need be said. Its an evil, cold hearted inhumane philosophy. May those who follow its path suffer from it as well.
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:16 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 851,725 times
Reputation: 76
Tell me one thing. Why would someone who does not "consider" themselves as a racist support white nationalists/supremacists? That's like John McCain asking for the help of a Klansmen.
Quote:
“I’m sure it will give you a new understanding of the Jewish outlook on life, which explains a large part of the Jewish opposition to immigration reform.” – John Tanton promoting an article written by anti-Semite Kevin McDonald of Occidental Quarterly a vicious anti-Semitic journal [Source: Letter to Mrs. C.S. May, December 10, 1998].
“You are saying a lot of things that need to be said, but I anticipate it will be very tough sledding” – John Tanton writing to Jared Taylor of the white supremacist group Council of Conservative Citizens concerning Taylor’s draft newsletter [Source: Letter to Jared Taylor, October 10, 1990].
“I’ve been a reader of your materials for some time, and hope that we can meet some day. Is there any chance that you could come up and join us?” – John Tanton inviting Wayne Lutton of the white supremacist group Council of Conservative Citizens to a FAIR event [Source: Letter to Wayne Lutton, June 10, 1991].
Anti-Immigrant Leader Says Immigration merely ‘Skirmish in a Wider War’ | IMAGINE 2050
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:17 PM
 
307 posts, read 458,164 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by r601020 View Post
A Need for Conservation
Dr. John Tanton
Topic 1 of 23?

YouTube - Dr. John Tanton Topic 1: A Need for Conservation
Sorry, I missed your point. The video is him talking about the need for Ecological conservation due to overpopulation and his belonging to and supporting "Planned Parenthood". Unless your trying to draw the distinction that most White Supremist tend to be the sort who oppose Planned Parenthood so this tends to show he ISN'T a white supremist?

Random
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Eugenics.
http://www.eugenics-watch.com/intro.html
Whats not said.
We have finite resourses and so they must be controled and used intellegently/
People with a genious IQ deserve more than an average IQ person.
Average IQ would be blue collar. We should be happy to serve the greater good.
Those born with defects including mine. ( Cleft pallot) should be used as organ donors and minimal resourses applied. Never be allowed to reproduce etc.
Anyone who follows Eugenics as a believer is beneath contempt.
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:51 PM
 
307 posts, read 458,164 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Tell me one thing. Why would someone who does not "consider" themselves as a racist support white nationalists/supremacists? That's like John McCain asking for the help of a Klansmen.
Quote:
John McCain introduced Parsley who has made many Racist statements as "one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide."

“For 20 years, Rev. Wright has been a ‘friend, mentor and pastor” Barak Obama talking about his Black Separatist Pastor.
And that’s just what these two men have said in public. Heaven knows how much A$$ kissing and what remarks that could be construed as "negative" they have said in private memos! (Please note. I am not trying to pick on either candidate, or do I feel these remarks make thm Racist. That is not the purpose of this thread.)

Once more can you please provide a link to something this man has said, and preferably not just a line or two, that proves he is racist?

Mind you, I don't have a dog in this fight, since I still don't know who he really is or what he has to do with this forum. If you can actuallly come up with a Racists statement or action of his, I'll be happy to acknowledge it. So far you are just providing inuendos and attacks upon his character due to his associations.

As a side note, I appreciate the fact that you are starting to add links and sources, It makes your posts MUCH easier to follow, and to see where your coming from. Thank you.


Random

Last edited by RandomU; 09-07-2008 at 07:49 PM..
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,173,806 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Eugenics.
http://www.eugenics-watch.com/intro.html
Whats not said.
We have finite resourses and so they must be controled and used intellegently/
People with a genious IQ deserve more than an average IQ person.
Average IQ would be blue collar. We should be happy to serve the greater good.
Those born with defects including mine. ( Cleft pallot) should be used as organ donors and minimal resourses applied. Never be allowed to reproduce etc.
Anyone who follows Eugenics as a believer is beneath contempt.
Are you saying that because this man has taken money from the Pioneer Fund that he's a Eugenicist? I already posted a rather large list of Universities that have also taken money from them. Does that make all of them guilty?
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
Are you saying that because this man has taken money from the Pioneer Fund that he's a Eugenicist? I already posted a rather large list of Universities that have also taken money from them. Does that make all of them guilty?
If he subscribes to the Eugenics philosophy then I question his motives.
Fact many Universities make eugenics a required study.
Its evil nothing short of evil.
Accepting money from an org that follows eugenics is questionable at best.
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,173,806 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
If he subscribes to the Eugenics philosophy then I question his motives.
Fact many Universities make eugenics a required study.
Its evil nothing short of evil.
Accepting money from an org that follows eugenics is questionable at best.
The debate between 'nature' and 'nurture' is an ongoing one that hasn't been settled to ANY degree. That is the reason that genetic research is ongoing, including the Human Genome Project. Do you consider that to be some sort of Mengele-inspired evil?
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
The debate between 'nature' and 'nurture' is an ongoing one that hasn't been settled to ANY degree. That is the reason that genetic research is ongoing, including the Human Genome Project. Do you consider that to be some sort of Mengele-inspired evil?
Eugenics is not about gene research. Although they probibly do study it to further attempt to manipulate evolution. Eugenics is about controling resourses and diverting them to a select few. Need is not relevent. Its about redirecting the human gene pool to what they think is right. Nazi Germany was following a version of Eugenics.
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