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Old 09-11-2008, 06:29 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1285

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bianca.G View Post
Thank you that is what I believe in. Mexico should be like Puerto Rico an American colony with it's own identity yet supported by America.

America get's labor legally and Mexico has better things. Both countries win with America gaining the most.
What this really means is that Mexico will get to leech off the US while being supported by the American taxpayer.
We have gained nothing from illegal aliens except bankrupt hospitals, overcrowded schools, jails filled to capacity, the reemergence of diseases we have not seen for decades and once decent neighborhoods turned into Third World barrios seemingly overnight. Don't kid yourself.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:38 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,894,200 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
What this really means is that Mexico will get to leech off the US while being supported by the American taxpayer.
We have gained nothing from illegal aliens except bankrupt hospitals, overcrowded schools, jails filled to capacity, the reemergence of diseases we have not seen for decades and once decent neighborhoods turned into Third World barrios seemingly overnight. Don't kid yourself.
You summed that up quite nicely! Rep points coming your way!
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Wayward Pines,ID
1,843 posts, read 3,306,402 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refugee56 View Post
I liked many aspects of the Mexican culture but strongly believed that the country will never have the prosperity of the United States, Canada or Western Europe.
...not that important or is efficency or a sense of urgency.

Agree or disagree?
Agree of course, I have more drive in my little pinky than any Mexican I have ever met.
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:48 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
the culture is not the problem. it is national policy. and transnational policy. its puppet politicians. its corrupt cops. its drug cartels. its a lot more complex than a simple laid back attitude.
A "culture" is just about everything that people "do". It's how we look at life, how we treat each other, our priorities, and our sense of ethics. Culture determines what's right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable. The things you mention above, (national policy, transnational policy, puppet politicians, corrupt cops, drug caretels) are part of a nation's CULTURE. They either exist or they do not...are 'tolerated' or not, according to culture.

The "OP" on this thread asked whether "American-style prosperity" could evolve in the framework of Mexican culture. The answer is no. That would require that Mexican culture change.

The whole question, really, is a 'no-brainer'. If Mexicans acted, thought, lived, and operated like Americans, then Mexico, as a society, would BE LIKE America. If Americans acted, thought, lived, and operated like Mexicans, then America would BE LIKE Mexico. It's that simple. Culture determines 'the system', and 'the system' is what makes the difference whether things 'work' or not. "Cultural" arguments aren't a debate about food or music...cultural arguments involve how life is 'lived', what our efforts go into, and how we 'fit in' to our society. Some societies 'bring out the best', while others discourage it.

A word of advice for ANYONE..if you live in a Third World culture, where things aren't fair, and life is tough, and your situation 'sucks'....and if you're lucky enough to be able to end up in a First World culture, where things are much fairer, and seem to 'work' better...AND YOU WANT TO BE 'PART of IT'..then maybe it's up to YOU to make some BIG CHANGES IN YOURSELF..to try to see how it's 'done' here, and to begin emulating THAT system. If you insist on coming here and living JUST LIKE YOU DID BACK HOME....then it's a pretty good guess that your life is going to be JUST LIKE IT WAS BACK HOME...full of class envy, 'paranoia', unfairness, and ethnic strife.

Want to 'plug in' to a First World society and reap its benefits? Fine. Start by adopting First World thinking..drop the 'old ways' and the 'old habits'..they didn't help you before, and they won't help you now. Culture is everything...and unlike race or color, it CAN be changed.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
A "culture" is just about everything that people "do". It's how we look at life, how we treat each other, our priorities, and our sense of ethics. Culture determines what's right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable. The things you mention above, (national policy, transnational policy, puppet politicians, corrupt cops, drug caretels) are part of a nation's CULTURE. They either exist or they do not...are 'tolerated' or not, according to culture.

The "OP" on this thread asked whether "American-style prosperity" could evolve in the framework of Mexican culture. The answer is no. That would require that Mexican culture change.

The whole question, really, is a 'no-brainer'. If Mexicans acted, thought, lived, and operated like Americans, then Mexico, as a society, would BE LIKE America. If Americans acted, thought, lived, and operated like Mexicans, then America would BE LIKE Mexico. It's that simple. Culture determines 'the system', and 'the system' is what makes the difference whether things 'work' or not. "Cultural" arguments aren't a debate about food or music...cultural arguments involve how life is 'lived', what our efforts go into, and how we 'fit in' to our society. Some societies 'bring out the best', while others discourage it.

A word of advice for ANYONE..if you live in a Third World culture, where things aren't fair, and life is tough, and your situation 'sucks'....and if you're lucky enough to be able to end up in a First World culture, where things are much fairer, and seem to 'work' better...AND YOU WANT TO BE 'PART of IT'..then maybe it's up to YOU to make some BIG CHANGES IN YOURSELF..to try to see how it's 'done' here, and to begin emulating THAT system. If you insist on coming here and living JUST LIKE YOU DID BACK HOME....then it's a pretty good guess that your life is going to be JUST LIKE IT WAS BACK HOME...full of class envy, 'paranoia', unfairness, and ethnic strife.

Want to 'plug in' to a First World society and reap its benefits? Fine. Start by adopting First World thinking..drop the 'old ways' and the 'old habits'..they didn't help you before, and they won't help you now. Culture is everything...and unlike race or color, it CAN be changed.
Bravo! Eloquent, as usual. Perhaps eventually the obstinate pro-illegal veil will be lifted long enough to absorb your glaring logic.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:27 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
A "culture" is just about everything that people "do". It's how we look at life, how we treat each other, our priorities, and our sense of ethics. Culture determines what's right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable. The things you mention above, (national policy, transnational policy, puppet politicians, corrupt cops, drug caretels) are part of a nation's CULTURE. They either exist or they do not...are 'tolerated' or not, according to culture.

The "OP" on this thread asked whether "American-style prosperity" could evolve in the framework of Mexican culture. The answer is no. That would require that Mexican culture change.

The whole question, really, is a 'no-brainer'. If Mexicans acted, thought, lived, and operated like Americans, then Mexico, as a society, would BE LIKE America. If Americans acted, thought, lived, and operated like Mexicans, then America would BE LIKE Mexico. It's that simple. Culture determines 'the system', and 'the system' is what makes the difference whether things 'work' or not. "Cultural" arguments aren't a debate about food or music...cultural arguments involve how life is 'lived', what our efforts go into, and how we 'fit in' to our society. Some societies 'bring out the best', while others discourage it.

A word of advice for ANYONE..if you live in a Third World culture, where things aren't fair, and life is tough, and your situation 'sucks'....and if you're lucky enough to be able to end up in a First World culture, where things are much fairer, and seem to 'work' better...AND YOU WANT TO BE 'PART of IT'..then maybe it's up to YOU to make some BIG CHANGES IN YOURSELF..to try to see how it's 'done' here, and to begin emulating THAT system. If you insist on coming here and living JUST LIKE YOU DID BACK HOME....then it's a pretty good guess that your life is going to be JUST LIKE IT WAS BACK HOME...full of class envy, 'paranoia', unfairness, and ethnic strife.

Want to 'plug in' to a First World society and reap its benefits? Fine. Start by adopting First World thinking..drop the 'old ways' and the 'old habits'..they didn't help you before, and they won't help you now. Culture is everything...and unlike race or color, it CAN be changed.
IMO, some cultures adapt to life in the US better than others. If the two societies are similar, that facilitates assimilation. Five hundred Canadians or British probably would adjust to living in the US fairly quickly. In other cases, a culture can be quite different but if the desire to assimilate is strong, those people will also adapt. Look at immigrants from South Korea and India. Problems arise when we have a culture that differs markedly from the norm in the US and no one sees a need to change and adopt the standards of behavior in the new country. This is what I see happening with the millions of illegal aliens from south of the border. Learn English? Why bother? Obey the laws of the land? Nah- let's see what we can get away with. Add to this La Raza, MALDEF, Mexican consulates all over the place, the ACLU and MECHa telling them that they do not have to play by the rules because the gringo stole their land, etc. etc. and you have a very volatile mix.
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
IMO, some cultures adapt to life in the US better than others. If the two societies are similar, that facilitates assimilation. Five hundred Canadians or British probably would adjust to living in the US fairly quickly. In other cases, a culture can be quite different but if the desire to assimilate is strong, those people will also adapt. Look at immigrants from South Korea and India. Problems arise when we have a culture that differs markedly from the norm in the US and no one sees a need to change and adopt the standards of behavior in the new country. This is what I see happening with the millions of illegal aliens from south of the border. Learn English? Why bother? Obey the laws of the land? Nah- let's see what we can get away with. Add to this La Raza, MALDEF, Mexican consulates all over the place, the ACLU and MECHa telling them that they do not have to play by the rules because the gringo stole their land, etc. etc. and you have a very volatile mix.
Very well stated; and a fitting addendum to macmeal's post.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:05 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17687
A FAIRY TALE:

A fairy appeared one day to a refugee claimant
outside a San Diego immigration office.

'My good man,' the fairy said, 'I've been told to grant you three
wishes, since you just arrived in the United States with your wife and
five children.'


The man told the fairy. 'Well, where I come from we don't have good
teeth, so I want new teeth, maybe a lot of gold in them.'

The fairy looked at the man's almost toothless grin and -- PING! --
he had a brand new shining set of gold teeth in his mouth!

'What else?' asked the fairy, 'two more to go.'

The migrant claimant now got bolder. 'I need a big house with a three
car garage in La Jolla
on the water with eight bedrooms for my family
and the rest of my
migrant relatives who still live in my country. I
want to bring them all over here..

' PING! - In the distance there could be seen a beautiful mansion with
a three car garage, a long driveway, a walkout patio with a BBQ in an
upscale neighborhood over looking the bay.

'One more wish', said the fairy, waving her wand.

'Yes, one more wish.

I want to be like an American with American clothes and I want to live
American.

' PING! - The man was transformed, wearing worn out jeans, aNFL
T-shirt and a baseball cap. He had his bad teeth back and the
mansion had disappeared from the horizon.

'What happened to my new teeth?' he wailed. 'Where is my new house?'

THIS IS GOOD ......

The fairy said 'Tough, Mac, Now that you are a tax paying
American, you
have to fend for yourself.'









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Old 09-12-2008, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
A FAIRY TALE:

A fairy appeared one day to a refugee claimant
outside a San Diego immigration office.

'My good man,' the fairy said, 'I've been told to grant you three
wishes, since you just arrived in the United States with your wife and
five children.'


The man told the fairy. 'Well, where I come from we don't have good
teeth, so I want new teeth, maybe a lot of gold in them.'

The fairy looked at the man's almost toothless grin and -- PING! --
he had a brand new shining set of gold teeth in his mouth!

'What else?' asked the fairy, 'two more to go.'

The migrant claimant now got bolder. 'I need a big house with a three
car garage in La Jolla
on the water with eight bedrooms for my family
and the rest of my
migrant relatives who still live in my country. I
want to bring them all over here..

' PING! - In the distance there could be seen a beautiful mansion with
a three car garage, a long driveway, a walkout patio with a BBQ in an
upscale neighborhood over looking the bay.

'One more wish', said the fairy, waving her wand.

'Yes, one more wish.

I want to be like an American with American clothes and I want to live
American.

' PING! - The man was transformed, wearing worn out jeans, aNFL
T-shirt and a baseball cap. He had his bad teeth back and the
mansion had disappeared from the horizon.

'What happened to my new teeth?' he wailed. 'Where is my new house?'

THIS IS GOOD ......

The fairy said 'Tough, Mac, Now that you are a tax paying
American, you
have to fend for yourself.'

Cute!
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
391 posts, read 739,962 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Despite what the above people are assuming, Mexico is improving. It has a pretty good economy due to all the foreign corporations(including American) investing in Mexico.

To understand whats wrong with Mexico, you have to understand its past of bad leadership.

But as the economy in Mexico improves, there is now a growing middle class. What Mexico needs to do right now is clean house, put a stop to the corruption that is so deeply rooted in the military/government/police.

Mexico is adjacent to the country with the biggest demand for drugs. It is also in between the United States and a lot of places that make those drugs. Mexico's unique location makes it vulnerable to all kinds of corruption. Transporting drugs into the United States is BIG business.

People say a lot of bad things about Calderon(or any other Hispanic in power), but I see him shaking up the cartels.
Also, I read about a "legal revolution", a number of young lawyer types who are determined to end the corruption of the Mexican legal system.
Like I said before ,I think its up to the youth of Mexico to put an end to the cycle of corruption.


I dont think the cartels will ever go away(Americans are always going to need their drugs!), but I think that the Mexicans will want change in the coming years/decades.

I only see Mexico improving in the future. Theres more than enough money to go around. Little by little, I think the status quo will break. People have been protesting a lot lately in Mexico. I think people know what they want, and thats the most important thing.

I like your post AMC and I too have seen a shift and drugs are big business and with the US begging for it too.Not to mention their involvment in it.
I am hoping that the future of Mexico gets brighter. They are artistic loving people. Their craftsmanship is wonderful.
They still need help and I think the US needs to set up more trade with them and continue to help like we do everywhere else so maybe they will not feel the need to come.
The recent beheaded going on there is sickening and I wish we knew who the perpetrators were.
I understand the thoughts of some of those other posters but some hate Mexico so much they refer to it as a cesspool. I do not think anyone should put anothers country down and they should remember they too are immigrants to our country our good old USA.
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