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Old 09-16-2008, 08:24 AM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,733,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
I hunt E County and have BP on speed dial. Twice I've had to sit and sweat it as a Coyote brought Illegals by me while bow hunting. A bow against an AK-47 isn't a contest. Thank God we don't have to wear blaze orange.

U know what's funny? During rifle season the number of illegals crossing drops down to almost zero. I guess the cowards don't like a fair fight.
The experience I have had with them in the desert is, they do not want or need help, and you just know to stay clear. I would be shaking with a bow. To me it is too dangerous in the desert now.
Some of the coyotes are our own people, driving nice cars, and of course they are making a lot of money. I have no use for them at all..

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Old 09-16-2008, 09:22 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
I live in Arizona, and have seen the burlap bags of drugs left in the desert.
You would not want to go near them as you would be shot dead. We would call Border patrol and let them take care of it.
I would think you'd probably be pretty safe. It's the guy who LEFT the bags unattended in the desert who should worry about being 'shot dead'...AFTER a serious 'chewing-out'. Drug smugglers' bosses are notorious for lacking a sense of humor.
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Old 09-16-2008, 09:38 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Why doesn't Canada have the same problem as Mexico? Since they are both at America's border?
Last time I checked, Canada wasn't in between the United States and the jungles where drugs are produced.
Last time I checked, Mexico IS.

Believe me..if there was nothing but snow south of Mexico, and lush, remote jungles north of Canada, the drugs would be coming through the north. Why? Because people WANT TO BUY THEM.
Your geography is OK, but you STILL tend to hold America uniquely culpable. Mexico, to some degree, can't "help" being corrupt, because America gives it such a big opportunity for "mischief". STILL sounds to me like America is at fault....WAY at fault.

If Canada has an affluent culture similar to the US, why isn't the US as corrupt as Mexico? Doesn't the US "stand between Canada, and the jungles from which the drugs originate"? Is it that Canada has no APPETITE for drugs? Or is it that the US won't 'tolerate' smugglers transiting its territory en route to Canada? Do you see the US as singularly responsible? That's what it sounds like...and you have plenty of 'audience' in this. But I can't agree. The fault goes in BOTH directions.

Reminds me of the old favorite, "Poverty breeds crime". Not altogether true. Poverty breeds WANTS. But mostly, what REALLY breeds crime is just people willing to turn to crime. The drug situation is "fed" by America's appetite for drugs. It's made POSSIBLE by Mexico's tolerance for corruption. Mexico can't "make" us buy drugs...and we can't "make" their officials be corrupt.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
Newsmax.com – Mexican Border City Drug Dead Hits 800 (http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/border_city_drug_dead/2008/08/18/122928.html?s=al&promo_code=680C-1 - broken link)

I don't know if this will help or not.
My quarrel is with Mexico here: if the elite would pay Gringo wages (they can afford it) to their judiciary, military as well as the Federales--------I am willing to bet that a much higher quality of recruit would apply for those careers and there would be much less need for mordita.
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:53 AM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,733,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I would think you'd probably be pretty safe. It's the guy who LEFT the bags unattended in the desert who should worry about being 'shot dead'...AFTER a serious 'chewing-out'. Drug smugglers' bosses are notorious for lacking a sense of humor.
I at one time felt fairly safe, it is not the normal Illegals that to me are of concern, not too long ago it was a different story, in as fact that with the drug cartels, you have no way of who they are for sure.
You are very right about the drugs, if there is any screw ups for them getting not delivered, someone's life is on the line. It is still(although) it could change, easier and safer to help in their country.
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Old 09-17-2008, 07:28 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
Newsmax.com – Mexican Border City Drug Dead Hits 800 (http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/border_city_drug_dead/2008/08/18/122928.html?s=al&promo_code=680C-1 - broken link)

I don't know if this will help or not.
I actually don't trust the USA MSM too much because I think that when it comes to what's going on in Mexico, there is a whole lot that they choose not to report.

What makes me suspicious too is that immediately when there are 24 or 12 or whatever number of bodies found, that they right away say it's about drug cartel violence -- long before any of the victims are identified.

I believe it has *something* to do with drug cartels, or a form of cartels but I'm not sure it's all that clear-cut and simplistic.

For example "La Familia" is a drug cartel killing drug users in Mexico. Supposedly La Familia was behind the 5 heads tossed out onto the dance floor in Uruopan, they were supposedly meth addicts and rolling their heads out like that was to send some kind of message, presumably to the people there at that bar.

I believe much of this war or blood-feud has to do with regional competition and between groups that control their regions. But I don't know if we really have much understanding of what all this is about.
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Old 09-17-2008, 11:18 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,733,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I actually don't trust the USA MSM too much because I think that when it comes to what's going on in Mexico, there is a whole lot that they choose not to report.

What makes me suspicious too is that immediately when there are 24 or 12 or whatever number of bodies found, that they right away say it's about drug cartel violence -- long before any of the victims are identified.

I believe it has *something* to do with drug cartels, or a form of cartels but I'm not sure it's all that clear-cut and simplistic.

For example "La Familia" is a drug cartel killing drug users in Mexico. Supposedly La Familia was behind the 5 heads tossed out onto the dance floor in Uruopan, they were supposedly meth addicts and rolling their heads out like that was to send some kind of message, presumably to the people there at that bar.

I believe much of this war or blood-feud has to do with regional competition and between groups that control their regions. But I don't know if we really have much understanding of what all this is about.
I met a woman about a year ago, that lives in either Elephant head or Arivica, and has quite a bit of property. She told me that a young Mexican woman was fround stripped killed and hung by barbed wire.
A lot of this does not make the papers, and maybe sometimes it can be blamed on the weather , especially summer when it is so hot.
La familia ( or the family) is a nice term for such nasty group.
I have been told, when we became friends with some of the shop owners in Nogales, that they pay extra (to whom I do not know) to
keep the patrons from the states safe. Now that kind of sounds like the mafia doesen't it?
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Old 09-17-2008, 11:56 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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It's like the note they left with those 5 heads they'd cut off:

"The family doesn't kill for money. It doesn't kill women. It doesn't kill innocent people, only those who deserve to die."

It's like they see themselves as the good guys.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:01 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,993,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Your geography is OK, but you STILL tend to hold America uniquely culpable. Mexico, to some degree, can't "help" being corrupt, because America gives it such a big opportunity for "mischief". STILL sounds to me like America is at fault....WAY at fault.

If Canada has an affluent culture similar to the US, why isn't the US as corrupt as Mexico? Doesn't the US "stand between Canada, and the jungles from which the drugs originate"? Is it that Canada has no APPETITE for drugs? Or is it that the US won't 'tolerate' smugglers transiting its territory en route to Canada? Do you see the US as singularly responsible? That's what it sounds like...and you have plenty of 'audience' in this. But I can't agree. The fault goes in BOTH directions.

Reminds me of the old favorite, "Poverty breeds crime". Not altogether true. Poverty breeds WANTS. But mostly, what REALLY breeds crime is just people willing to turn to crime. The drug situation is "fed" by America's appetite for drugs. It's made POSSIBLE by Mexico's tolerance for corruption. Mexico can't "make" us buy drugs...and we can't "make" their officials be corrupt.


"(sigh)".


The United States is an affluent country that loves drugs.
Agree or disagree?

Mexico is a formerly impoverished county, with lots of poor people who don't have very many options.
Agree or disagree?

Its big business to smuggle the drugs into America. Big business you dont exactly need an MBA for.
Agree or disagree?



You can jump off on all my posts, claiming I'm blaming white people, and America or whatever(even when its irrelevant to the discussion. Why not?). Its shows more of your true opinons and thoughts than your repetitive, sarcastic posts ever could.

You sound just like Jdubs mom, with your theory on 'inferior cultures'. It just sounds more purty and has less smileys()

A few decades ago, America was doing pretty good smuggling alcohol. From Canada too!
We also had some pretty good organized crime going on ourselves, along with some nice corruption among law enforcement and politicians being connected to the mob.
JFK and his family sure didnt mind a little help from the mob.
What does that say about America's culture?
A tolerance for corruption?

Its way different though. Because we are the United States, and that was a long time ago.
Nope, Mexico's way different. Its not just that the times are different, and that the drug smugglers have more money and power than the beer smugglers could ever dream of. Its clearly cultural.


Different time, different players, same game.


Alcohol was illegal in that time, and it only took a few years for little street corner thugs to become big time smuggling in barrels of booze. A lot of people got paid to look the other way, a lot of people went crooked because there was a lot of money in smuggling.
Lots of everyday people supported the speakeasies(even thought it was clearly against the law and supporting gangsters."tolerance of corruption?).
The ban got lifted, and it mostly faded away.



Today, alcohol is illegal. Now people like things like cocaine, and heroin,. That stuff can't be snuck in from Canada. Its grown and processed in jungles SOUTH of America.

Same game, different players. Only difference is that drugs have been illegal and desired a lot longer than alcohol ever was. What you are seeing is what would have happened to the United States if prohibition would have never been lifted.
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Old 09-18-2008, 07:20 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
I met a woman about a year ago, that lives in either Elephant head or Arivica, and has quite a bit of property. She told me that a young Mexican woman was fround stripped killed and hung by barbed wire.
A lot of this does not make the papers, and maybe sometimes it can be blamed on the weather , especially summer when it is so hot.
La familia ( or the family) is a nice term for such nasty group.
I have been told, when we became friends with some of the shop owners in Nogales, that they pay extra (to whom I do not know) to
keep the patrons from the states safe. Now that kind of sounds like the mafia doesen't it?
Apparently the recent killing of innocent people in Morelia is connected to La Familia.

Pelea en ‘Familia’ causó el atentado - El Universal - Primera

Pelea en ‘Familia’ causó el atentado

MORELIA, Mich.— El cártel de La Familia, que surgió a principios de esta década bajo el abrigo de Los Zetas, sufrió una fragmentación en cuya estela disputan rutas de distribución, nuevos mercados y cumplimiento de viejos pactos políticos con autoridades locales, y que tuvo como último corolario el atentado en esta ciudad la noche del 15 de septiembre.

This La Familia seems to be more than just about drug trafficking to the USA. Drug trafficking to the USA is likely part of what they're about but it seems also about control over their region for many things.

Según las investigaciones, la ruptura se dio como consecuencia del operativo conjunto que inició el gobierno federal en diciembre de 2006, y que les alteró los mercados, las rutas de distribución, el control territorial y los viejos acuerdos políticos municipales y estatales.
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