U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-14-2008, 08:53 PM
 
Location: US
3,074 posts, read 3,336,186 times
Reputation: 1621

Advertisements

Don't think I don't understand the plight of the illegals. Their country is not taking care of them. It is next to impossible to start a business in Mexico. Until America and the world actually holds Mexico's feet to the fire, it won't happen. But when Americans try to help Mexicans in their own country, it has even been written here, all they want to do is come here to get everything free.

I also understand what it is to watch children starve. You should see what happens to children here in America. I do not understand why America would bypass them and choose illegals. Well, yes I do, to get votes.

No further issues here. We'll agree to disagree and proceed forward with our causes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
I understand carolac that you are very upset. I am a mother too and my children have always been a blessing. I believe you might have read my post wrong. I do not think any American should have to lower their standards so illegals have it easier. The ones that bother me are the
children. I'm talking about the ones that are living in Mexico and are living at the dump, just like a dump anywhere. They sift through the dump to sell the metal or whatever is what I was told. To some here if it does not affect them personally then they just do not care about another human being. I myself cannot do that and never have been able to.
The interesting thing I have discovered is, when I lived in Oregon, I felt like the anti-illegals here and was rampant about it. When we moved to Arizona that completely changed when I was close to the border. I could see the pain first hand, anyhow that is my feelings and I don't expect anyone else to feel the same way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-14-2008, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Oddly enough, my story is almost a mirror image of yours. You started out 'mean', and became 'nice'...I, on the other hand, started out 'nice' and became 'mean'....go figure !!

For many years, I worked with illegal Mexicans...I helped them, they helped me, we partied together, and they were some very enjoyable people. I have a NUMBER of people in my extended family who once WERE illegals. I've carpooled with illegals, and they've come to my aid many times. Back then, illegals were nice people.

Then times got 'tough'. The NEW illegals started "acting different". This upset me, and it even upset many of the FORMER illegals I knew..the 'new guys' just didn't have the 'class' of their predecessors. It got worse and worse, until finally we suffered the debacle of the idiotic "flag-waving" incidents. That DID it....I finally got FED UP, and the result is the "grumpy guy" you now see on this forum.

Am I just a "racist"?..that's unlikely, as my spouse, for all practical purposes, shares the ethnicity of MOST illegals..as do our kids, grandkids, and many assorted friends and in-laws. So 'race' is hardly the issue. "Meanness" isn't either, because MOST of these folks I know are very very decent. What MOST of us object to is the "BS" factor...the endless, repetitive demands and sense of 'entitlement'. And while I STILL know a few illegals (getting older now...with "legal" kids), and they're STILL fine people as individuals, AS A "CLASS", and as a chronic, ongoing situation, it CANNOT be allowed to continue. You can "like" an individual, but dislike his faults...and even THAT doesn't mean you must 'approve' of 20 million lawbreakers.

Again, Sassyone, at one time I felt as you do. Forty years later, I no longer do. I can only HOPE things don't continue to deteriorate to the point that SOME day, you find yourself agreeing with ME...and have to change your forum 'handle' from "Sassyone", to "Grumpyone". Now THAT would be a sad day indeed !!...
Sadly, another insightful post that has failed to penetrate the pro-illegal mind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-14-2008, 08:59 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,734,736 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by chey2u View Post
Sassy does Nothing and I repeat Nothing illegal. We are humanitarians but by no means doing anything our Gov't feels is illegal. Oh and watch your spelling and grammar while it does not bother me there are other who think they are god like people & who feel we dumb it down. Even dumming it down they do not get it.
Don't worry about the little stuff, we live in totally different states.
I have already explained my feelings and I have no problem with tinman.
If truth were known, I probably really do not have problems with a great share of this forum. Thanks for the help chey it's okay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 08:23 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,019,301 times
Reputation: 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by chey2u View Post
Any parent that loved their child would do what ever was needed. Remember the plane crash where the soccer players ended up having to be cannibals? My point is you would do what ever you had to and I will not believe otherwise....
Now I am appalled: your justification of the pro-illegal/pro-criminality stance to ignore all that is civilized in America, its laws, its morality, ad infinitum.

One of my favorite quotes I've seen on City-data is:
"Culture is making a nice bowl out of your enemy's skull.
Civilization is being thrown in prison for doing just that."

How an educated person can forget that civilization is a two-way street is beyond me. Your quote justifies selfsame wreck survivors attacking and eating your own children because "you do whatever you had to." You wrote this. Laws, such as our own country's, are put in place hopefully to evolve our civilization, not take it back to primeval hardscrabble. America is the place to which people want to move and become legal citizens because of our laws.

No, you DON'T have the option to come into my house, kill and eat my husband to feed your children. NEVER. And I as well NEVER will even entertain same, and I've lived through an actual terrible disaster wherein my own immediate neighbors were killed by selfsame disaster and we all didn't know what was going to happen next. And no, illegals DON'T have the right to suspend all American laws, just because they don't "want" to obey them. And no, illegals DON'T have the right to cherrypick what laws they want to obey either in their own selfish narcissism for their family, to "justify" that people residing in another country matter more than poor, needy and desperate American citizens living here.

Unfortunately, your post also highlights the spankin' new mindset of younger pro-illegals, which is that their ancestral culture matters most and no one else in creation does. They actually do not believe that a melting pot such as our American experience should exist any more, that everything should be done for La Raza, American laws be damned. Our poster Kele was physically attacked and beaten for being American free press, videotaping the pro-illegal/pro-criminality rally. We actually have a Constitution and Bill of Rights to protect a free press, yet pro-illegals ignored it and physically attacked a woman, because they didn't "want" to obey the laws. My neighborhood acitivist friend and his own family were targeted for violence by pro-illegals, who deseminated flyers with his description and license plate number, and advised their own to make trouble for him because pro-illegals didn't "want" to obey anti-stalker laws. (He subsequently moved out of state.)

Besides the mindset of lawlessness or merely cherrypicking which laws you want to obey in the "interest of your family," there are genuine costs -back to topic- to human lives right here in America that pro-illegals conveniently forget. They have instant amnesia that law-abiding, tax-paying, poor, needy and desperate American citizens are always pushed to the back of the line by the sheer numbers of the people that shouldn't even be here, the illegals.

I guess you don't know American poor people in places overrun by illegals. For solace, I accompanied my too-poor-for-health-insurance friend who needed county help for her cancer here in L.A. Unfortunately it was a gynocological cancer which put her in with a veritable sea of hundreds of uniformly eight and half months' pregnant women from south of the border (and yes, people in L.A. can differientiate.) Because of sheer numbers, her appointments for an actual cancer were four months apart, even post surgical ones. Because of the scanty pre-op and post-op treatments, she developed a problem that didn't have to happen at all, and will have lifelong complications and pain for the rest of her life. She might have even died for something preventable and immenently treatable.

If this lifelong, tax-paying American citizen had had her cancer in any other American city that wasn't overrun with illegals, she would not have had lifelong pain and complications. But of course, the pro-illegals see nothing at all wrong with this! How you must hate your fellow American citizens to think that people in other countries actually matter MORE than our poorest and still taxpaying American citizens! And until every pro-illegal/pro-criminal poster here in taxed into oblivion like we in Los Angeles are to support the nation's largest population of illegals for services that we, the American citizens will never get, you just might be a hypocrite. I know the real consequences of being overrun with illegals: you don't.

Last edited by fastfilm; 09-15-2008 at 08:35 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 08:35 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
Amazing post fastfilm! Wish I could rep you.

Wait, what was that whooshing sound?

That was the sound of your post going right over chey's head at lightning speed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 09:34 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Amazing post fastfilm! Wish I could rep you.

Wait, what was that whooshing sound?

That was the sound of your post going right over chey's head at lightning speed.
Once again, I agree..Fastfilm, you've "got the gift"...well-spoken, and I can ONLY add that it gives me yet another excuse to toss in my standard 'blurb' for culture. What your post illustrated was nothing if not a TEXTBOOK example of the Third World running head-on into the First World, with results covering ALL phases from the 'merely annoying' to the tragic.

In the First World, we have laws. We learn from early childhood to 'stand in line', to 'take our turn', and that it 'isn't all about US'...and to OBEY the law as 'second nature'.....and those who fail to 'get this' suffer our scorn and disaproval.

In the Third World, family and 'inner circle' are EVERYTHING. They're one's solace, refuge, and defense against a hostile, unorganized, uncaring society. Family is to be defended and 'backed up', EVEN WHEN THEY'RE WRONG...and "strangers" are the enemy...period. The whole concept of "laws" and "rules", in this culture, is treated pretty much as a quaint joke.

Culture is "everything", and different cultures are, at some point, going to have instances in which they're simply incompatible. And as long as we have folks coming here, neither wanting NOR being "told" that they MUST assimilate, then this is what our society will increasingly be like....mutually hostile, incompatible cultures, each culture fuming in resentment at the other....and need I add, that if we ever DO decide to ever again 'push' assimilation, that one of its FIRST requirements will be to come here LEGALLY?.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 11:37 AM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,734,736 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Once again, I agree..Fastfilm, you've "got the gift"...well-spoken, and I can ONLY add that it gives me yet another excuse to toss in my standard 'blurb' for culture. What your post illustrated was nothing if not a TEXTBOOK example of the Third World running head-on into the First World, with results covering ALL phases from the 'merely annoying' to the tragic.

In the First World, we have laws. We learn from early childhood to 'stand in line', to 'take our turn', and that it 'isn't all about US'...and to OBEY the law as 'second nature'.....and those who fail to 'get this' suffer our scorn and disaproval. I totally agree, this how most of us were taught this as children. This is also how I have taught my children.
I was also taught to not prejudge anyone, before I got to know them.
I also never was allowed to judge someone of a different color or race.
We did not have a lot of money when I was growing up, but if a neighbor or someone was in need, my dad would give them what he could. I still follow what I was taught.

In the Third World, family and 'inner circle' are EVERYTHING. They're one's solace, refuge, and defense against a hostile, unorganized, uncaring society. Family is to be defended and 'backed up', EVEN WHEN THEY'RE WRONG...and "strangers" are the enemy...period. The whole concept of "laws" and "rules", in this culture, is treated pretty much as a quaint joke. I do agree wih parts of this post. I do believe that family is very important and should be a safe refuge.
If the family is wrong, no I don't agree with siding with them and I do believe laws should be followed and that is why I do not disobey.

Culture is "everything", and different cultures are, at some point, going to have instances in which they're simply incompatible. And as long as we have folks coming here, neither wanting NOR being "told" that they MUST assimilate, then this is what our society will increasingly be like....mutually hostile, incompatible cultures, each culture fuming in resentment at the other....and need I add, that if we ever DO decide to ever again 'push' assimilation, that one of its FIRST requirements will be to come here LEGALLY?.....
I agree that they should come over here legally, but I will not mistreat them if they are illegal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 11:56 AM
 
Location: US
3,074 posts, read 3,336,186 times
Reputation: 1621
Fastfilm - added to your rep. Thanks for this message. How do we get our politicians to listen--both Democrats and Republicans. The Democrats in California are so overwhelmed with their own desire to get more seats and more votes, they are literally sacrificing our American citizens to do so, as you set out below. They are allowing illegals to dictate to us what they will obey and not obey. I was most frustrated this AM listening to a Ron Paul video another listmate posted, that it is illegal to ask an illegal their immigration status, and that Americans are getting discouraged watching them stand in line for medical care and food stamps while they are barely able to buy food or treatment.

Per Henry Thoreau, it takes two to speak the truth--one to speak it and one to listen. Your message clearly speaks it, now I wish the pro-illegals would listen, including our politicians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
Now I am appalled: your justification of the pro-illegal/pro-criminality stance to ignore all that is civilized in America, its laws, its morality, ad infinitum.

One of my favorite quotes I've seen on City-data is:
"Culture is making a nice bowl out of your enemy's skull.
Civilization is being thrown in prison for doing just that."

How an educated person can forget that civilization is a two-way street is beyond me. Your quote justifies selfsame wreck survivors attacking and eating your own children because "you do whatever you had to." You wrote this. Laws, such as our own country's, are put in place hopefully to evolve our civilization, not take it back to primeval hardscrabble. America is the place to which people want to move and become legal citizens because of our laws.

No, you DON'T have the option to come into my house, kill and eat my husband to feed your children. NEVER. And I as well NEVER will even entertain same, and I've lived through an actual terrible disaster wherein my own immediate neighbors were killed by selfsame disaster and we all didn't know what was going to happen next. And no, illegals DON'T have the right to suspend all American laws, just because they don't "want" to obey them. And no, illegals DON'T have the right to cherrypick what laws they want to obey either in their own selfish narcissism for their family, to "justify" that people residing in another country matter more than poor, needy and desperate American citizens living here.

Unfortunately, your post also highlights the spankin' new mindset of younger pro-illegals, which is that their ancestral culture matters most and no one else in creation does. They actually do not believe that a melting pot such as our American experience should exist any more, that everything should be done for La Raza, American laws be damned. Our poster Kele was physically attacked and beaten for being American free press, videotaping the pro-illegal/pro-criminality rally. We actually have a Constitution and Bill of Rights to protect a free press, yet pro-illegals ignored it and physically attacked a woman, because they didn't "want" to obey the laws. My neighborhood acitivist friend and his own family were targeted for violence by pro-illegals, who deseminated flyers with his description and license plate number, and advised their own to make trouble for him because pro-illegals didn't "want" to obey anti-stalker laws. (He subsequently moved out of state.)

Besides the mindset of lawlessness or merely cherrypicking which laws you want to obey in the "interest of your family," there are genuine costs -back to topic- to human lives right here in America that pro-illegals conveniently forget. They have instant amnesia that law-abiding, tax-paying, poor, needy and desperate American citizens are always pushed to the back of the line by the sheer numbers of the people that shouldn't even be here, the illegals.

I guess you don't know American poor people in places overrun by illegals. For solace, I accompanied my too-poor-for-health-insurance friend who needed county help for her cancer here in L.A. Unfortunately it was a gynocological cancer which put her in with a veritable sea of hundreds of uniformly eight and half months' pregnant women from south of the border (and yes, people in L.A. can differientiate.) Because of sheer numbers, her appointments for an actual cancer were four months apart, even post surgical ones. Because of the scanty pre-op and post-op treatments, she developed a problem that didn't have to happen at all, and will have lifelong complications and pain for the rest of her life. She might have even died for something preventable and immenently treatable.

If this lifelong, tax-paying American citizen had had her cancer in any other American city that wasn't overrun with illegals, she would not have had lifelong pain and complications. But of course, the pro-illegals see nothing at all wrong with this! How you must hate your fellow American citizens to think that people in other countries actually matter MORE than our poorest and still taxpaying American citizens! And until every pro-illegal/pro-criminal poster here in taxed into oblivion like we in Los Angeles are to support the nation's largest population of illegals for services that we, the American citizens will never get, you just might be a hypocrite. I know the real consequences of being overrun with illegals: you don't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 06:14 PM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,019,301 times
Reputation: 1788
carolac, your statement it is illegal to ask an illegal their immigration status remains the very definition of so-called "sanctuary" city status, and L.A.'s Special Order 40 to police enforcement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
carolac, your statement it is illegal to ask an illegal their immigration status remains the very definition of so-called "sanctuary" city status, and L.A.'s Special Order 40 to police enforcement.
I have a feeling that Special Order 40 will soon be declared null and void.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top