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Old 09-15-2008, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by big mean bear View Post
Does it matter??? It stinks!!!
Legals from Mexico (or any other place) I am OK with.............it is the illegal immigrants who need to be run off.
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:35 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,018,519 times
Reputation: 1788
Chinolala, this is intended as a benign question: where do you live? We all are posting with information from our immediate environs, augmented by occasional statistics. The vocational situations you describe appear quite different than what I'm reporting on in the nation's worst case scenario.

Here in Los Angeles, most of the starter-level jobs, with the exception of the whitest of white collar jobs, are flooded with illegals. Skilled American construction workers cannot get hired, etc. Moreover, applicants who do not speak the language of another country automatically are excused, which translates to excusing American young people desperate for work experience as well as funds entree to the working world. This insidious prejudice is beginning to sound like the corruption aluded to in other countries.

And that is perhaps the point. Americans do not want their own country transmogrified into Third World standards, philosophical, socioeconomic or otherwise. Macmeal's recent rejoinders to my last posts here really made me ruminate on what is so quickly disappearing in L.A. (besides the usual and trivial nostalgia points): a sense of living in a First World country like the U.S.A. ebbs away with every claim that illegals matter more than U.S. citizens, and every claim that breaking any and all laws in the name of illegal immigration is A-okay because it was done in the "home" country, and that one's own family/ethnicity/tribe supercede any or all adherence to American laws.

Here in L.A. we are being overtaxed to pay for services for illegals (services that citizens never receive) so the tepid argument of saving monies is untrue in the extreme. Furthermore, we don't pay less for services, commodities, housing etc. compared to the rest of the U.S. The apologists for illegals never seem to want to factor in the real costs to American citizens, of which I previously posted.
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Old 09-16-2008, 08:27 AM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,733,980 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Legals from Mexico (or any other place) I am OK with.............it is the illegal immigrants who need to be run off.
We got that message Bear.
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Old 09-16-2008, 09:14 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinolala View Post
One last comment...if you've ever seen the kind of poverty that exists in parts of the world first hand (including Mexico) you may better understand why people risk their lives to come here. LIfe is a crap shoot and some of us are lucky to be born in the US. Others are born in horribly corrupt, violent and poverty stricken places. So they're there, barely getting by and wanting a better life. It's easy to see how people would not want better for themselves and their children. It's human nature. Living in a 2 bedroom apartment with 8 other people in the US and working 7 days a week for 10 hours a day and having running water, a toilet and food is better than living in many other parts of the world, including many parts of Mexico.
Beautifully stated, and covers MOST of the issue, From the viewpoint of illegal Mexicans. I don't think ANYONE would argue with you. My point, though, is that the "interests" of illegals (Mexican or other) oftentime fly directly in the face of the interests of American citizens, and the burden of 'fixing' this is on Americans.

An analogy might be made to heavy Muslim immigration into Western Europe. It's VERY easy...in fact, it's a 'no-brainer'..to imagine why Muslims from violent. impoverished, war-torn theocracies MIGHT be attracted to Western Europe...the personal freedom, the ability to 'be themselves', the docile, non-judgemental Europeans themselves, with their laid-back "anything goes" culture, and the plain AFFLUENCE of the place. That's EASY to understand. What's NOT so easy, though, is to understand what in the WORLD advantage is in this for the Europeans? An ungrateful, sullen bunch of newcomers, always on the lookout for any real or imagined "insult"? Neighborhood strife and violence not normally seen in Europe in recent centuries? The necessity to 'walk on eggshells' at every turn for fear of "infuriating" these new 'guests'? A whole new 'industry' of Political Correctness? Sounds like FUN, right?

Bottom line is, whatever "benefits" the Europeans realize from this new addition to their society, I can't IMAGINE that it's worth the cost. The SAME dynamic applies HERE, in the arena of illegal immigration. It's OBVIOUS how illegal immigration benefits the 'immigrants'....NOT so obvious, though, to see 'what's in it for US ?'. I've heard LOTS of ways it 'helps' us here, but I remain skeptical...patricularly in view of the fact that if we REALLY 'need' them, why can't we bring them in legally? And if we DON'T, why can't we 'shut the door'? You never get a really STRAIGHT answer to that.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Pacific NW
391 posts, read 739,962 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinolala View Post
One last comment...if you've ever seen the kind of poverty that exists in parts of the world first hand (including Mexico) you may better understand why people risk their lives to come here. LIfe is a crap shoot and some of us are lucky to be born in the US. Others are born in horribly corrupt, violent and poverty stricken places. So they're there, barely getting by and wanting a better life. It's easy to see how people would not want better for themselves and their children. It's human nature. Living in a 2 bedroom apartment with 8 other people in the US and working 7 days a week for 10 hours a day and having running water, a toilet and food is better than living in many other parts of the world, including many parts of Mexico.
I especially feel sad for those in card board lean to homes or those living at the dump picking through trash metal or what have you to sell. Doing humanitarian aid there is heart breaking but so needed fortunately groups go a couple times a week, are building a school and a soup kitchen. Not sure how far they have gotten since last there. I hear so much about Mexico being the 16th richest country. Well if that is richest they cannot be referring to money but land and resource on the land. Many parts are so beautiful. It is so rich in beauty and culture
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Pacific NW
391 posts, read 739,962 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Legals from Mexico (or any other place) I am OK with.............it is the illegal immigrants who need to be run off.
I thought you had changed your name for a minute. but I guess we just have more bears.
I as you know am hoping for a good solution to this problem. waiting and watching for those solutions.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:10 AM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,733,980 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by chey2u View Post
I especially feel sad for those in card board lean to homes or those living at the dump picking through trash metal or what have you to sell. Doing humanitarian aid there is heart breaking but so needed fortunately groups go a couple times a week, are building a school and a soup kitchen. Not sure how far they have gotten since last there. I hear so much about Mexico being the 16th richest country. Well if that is richest they cannot be referring to money but land and resource on the land. Many parts are so beautiful. It is so rich in beauty and culture
Chey, the groups go every day except Sunday, each day there is another group.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Pacific NW
391 posts, read 739,962 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Beautifully stated, and covers MOST of the issue, From the viewpoint of illegal Mexicans. I don't think ANYONE would argue with you. My point, though, is that the "interests" of illegals (Mexican or other) oftentime fly directly in the face of the interests of American citizens, and the burden of 'fixing' this is on Americans.

An analogy might be made to heavy Muslim immigration into Western Europe. It's VERY easy...in fact, it's a 'no-brainer'..to imagine why Muslims from violent. impoverished, war-torn theocracies MIGHT be attracted to Western Europe...the personal freedom, the ability to 'be themselves', the docile, non-judgemental Europeans themselves, with their laid-back "anything goes" culture, and the plain AFFLUENCE of the place. That's EASY to understand. What's NOT so easy, though, is to understand what in the WORLD advantage is in this for the Europeans? An ungrateful, sullen bunch of newcomers, always on the lookout for any real or imagined "insult"? Neighborhood strife and violence not normally seen in Europe in recent centuries? The necessity to 'walk on eggshells' at every turn for fear of "infuriating" these new 'guests'? A whole new 'industry' of Political Correctness? Sounds like FUN, right?

Bottom line is, whatever "benefits" the Europeans realize from this new addition to their society, I can't IMAGINE that it's worth the cost. The SAME dynamic applies HERE, in the arena of illegal immigration. It's OBVIOUS how illegal immigration benefits the 'immigrants'....NOT so obvious, though, to see 'what's in it for US ?'. I've heard LOTS of ways it 'helps' us here, but I remain skeptical...patricularly in view of the fact that if we REALLY 'need' them, why can't we bring them in legally? And if we DON'T, why can't we 'shut the door'? You never get a really STRAIGHT answer to that.
well said mac. it is a double edge sword.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Pacific NW
391 posts, read 739,962 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
Chey, the groups go every day except Sunday, each day there is another group.
That is good to know I did not realize it was daily. good to hear. Have they gotten anywhere with the building?
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Pacific NW
391 posts, read 739,962 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolac View Post
I hope so. In the meantime, illegals are being given drivers licenses and voting privileges, so residents of another country can vote for our President.
They are changing the laws very fast here I know. They are not accepting the same credentials because they cannot be verified. Everyday it changes to make it harder. Can they really vote? I was told only if they can prove they are US citizens.
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